2017 Formula 1 - The next generation


Always thought if you have the right car under you there’s many a driver who could get the results. But Lewis’s mastery of the wet sets him apart IMO. Thoughts?


Apart from whom?

Button coming from last to win in the wet in Canada in 2011 is probably the best driving in the rain i have ever seen.

Schumacher in Spain in '97 was astonishing.

Doing it in the race is what counts, although i agree Hamilton is very good in the wet as he proved at Silverstone in 2008

Verstaapen is very very good as he showed in coming from 16th to 3rd in China earlier this year.


Senna in the wet at Donnington in 93.


Even being a fanboi, this would have to rate as one of the best opening two laps…EVER !!


Button @ Canada often comes up in these wet race chats and yet I can’t for the life of me understand why. A great race, yes, and some incredibly fortuitous ‘right place right time’ circumstances by Jenson, but not a great drive IMHO - at no point in that race was he significantly quicker than the rest of the field, which is the hallmark of a great wet weather driver.

Of the three modern rain masters, I’d have to pick Schumacher @ Barca 96 (and so many of his other wet drives) as the standout. It had the worst conditions of all of them, his comparative speed was the highest compared to the competition and - most importantly - the car was an absolute dog

Senna @ Estonia 85 massively trumps Donningtom 93 IMHO


My view as well.

He then lapped the then leader and in the end winner of the F1 championship in 93 twice. And Prost had no problems with his car, he was just so far away from Senna that day that he was in a different race, pretty much like the rest of the field.


Senna @ Estoril in 85?

If so very impressive, but he started from pole, which certainly made it easier to do.


Senna hardly started last at Donnington, and was 1st by lap 2.

Maybe I’m getting mixed up, but didn’t his win margin at Donnjgton owe as much to him reading the conditions better than everyone else (a huge skill in itself, of course) and other people taking twice as many stops, stalling, and generally making a complete fucking horlicks of it?


Senna started the 1985 Portugese GP on pole on and proceeded to win the race, lapping everyone apart from Michele Alboreto in the wet conditions. This was Senna’s first F1 pole and win and showed that he was brilliant at driving in the wet.

Or are you thinking of another race?


Yep, that’s the one I’m thinking of

Also: Had Monaco 84 gone to the end I suspect that would be the standout winner


Did anyone - aside from Ian, of coure - watch the race ? i just saw the short FOM hlighlights and Ricciardo aside it did not seem terribly exciting


I tried to watch it last night, but failed, it had been a busy weekend and eyelid inspecting took over…


Apart from Ricciardo’s 4th from 16th on the grid it wasn’t a classic. The penalty system led to an farcical grid situation, which could have been more exciting than it was. Rumour has it teams aren’t happy with it.


Ross Brawn is apparently trying to get rid/change it.


Has he checked with Bernie first if that will be OK? :ghost:


I think it was a typical Italian GP. Those at the front disappear into the distance and there are usually a couple of battles further down. The penalties and the wet Quali created a bit of extra interest but it was what I expected.


Should be a fascinating few days ahead, off track

While the House of Commons begins shambolic deliberations on the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill, McLaren, Torro Rosso and Renault, Honda and Liberty Group are finalising the equally shambolic Honda & McLaren (Withdrawal) Bill

It all seems to rest on Honda swallowing a bitter pill and giving up their marquee team to swicth to TR (with the fantasy land option of Red Bull ripping off their arm when they eventually build a decent powerplant <insert future date as appropriate)

Carlos Sainz > Renault might also be part of the package, apparently

I have a strange feeling that McLaren are making a mistake and that Honda will come good next year (to the eventual benefit of Red Bull) but I can’t really blame them for giving up on Honda’s piss poor efforts and hot air.


I havent seen Frank on here for a wee while, but if I were Honda there’s only one team Id be interested in and it’s not Torro Rosso

Frank - or anyone with a opinion - why hasn’t a Williams Honda seen much discussion? Williams aren’t going anywhere up the grid soon, structural defficiencies and budgets being the main reasons (crap drivers being another) so why don’t they toss the Merceds engines, take the Honda money and use those two years or so of decelopment to help Honda build a decent PU, and get back to being a proper works team ??

This would have had the added hypothetical benefit of being easier for Honda to save face (Williams history / marquee) and freeing a Merc engine for McLaren


I could have gone to work to watch the race, but decided to watch it on the timing screen on my work computer. It was’t that exciting on the timing screen either…

I have not decided whether i want to pay for a TV and cable subscription in Switzerland.


Why would Williams want to give up the best powerplant in F1 for the worst?

When they are already struggling with a chassis that is getting worse each year and no sign that this will change.

Paddy Lowe has brought in some new people to try and sort this out from McLaren, but as they lost their way for a few years I am not confident that they know what needs to be done. They are also using external simulation software that is based on techniques developed in the last decade (developed by ex McLaren employees as well) and that will not tell them what they need to know either.

Having said all that Williams did better than I expected in Monza. It should be their best circuit as it requires very high aero efficiency and the most engine power, but I thought that they had lost their way so much that they would not look good there. RBR showed what can be done with an engine with less power, through generating a lot of their downforce from their underbody, enabling them run a very small rear wing, which reduces the aero drag.