Armchair politics


See your point. But the violence is kicking off now. Damned if they do etc…


Think the govt is also sending a message with the violence, independence keeps popping up every few years and got some traction after brexit.

Read somewhere that Spain was going to veto the brexit deal for the UK to send a message to the Catalonians as well.


I noted a brief interview with a Catalan ‘remainer’ who appeared conspicuously nervous amid her surroundings. No it’s not how to conduct any sort of vote.

I don’t know what voter turnout will be - but given ordinary people are prepared to be thrown about like rag dolls I’d say that’s quite enough for a vote to be given by the Spanish government.


That’ll be interesting


Wasn’t that about letting Scotland stay in the EU if they voted for independence?


I thought that they were going to veto any attempt by Scotland to become a separate and new EU member because that might further encourage the Catalans to try to secede.


That sounds more like it.


yes i think that was what it was.


The mood in Scotland is turning against non-EU union. Expect land borders not just between N.I. and Eire.


I expect it’s the same here. Won’t have any effect though.


Love the first reply


My sister-in-law’s son lives in Barcelona. Talking to him last week he was saying that there would likely be a majority for independence, but I didn’t get the impression it would be as high as eighty percent.

Ignoring what looks like a clear democratic decision is never politically easy. I can see why the Spanish government wouldn’t want such a clear position to be established. Maybe there’s an issue about whether, given the economic impact of secession, the whole of Spain should be allowed to vote on it ? The Catalans might want to jump ship but the rest of Spain might not want to let them. A (loose) analogy might be the question of making the rich pay more tax in times of economic hardship. It would ‘only’ sting the rich, so if this question was put to a referendum they might argue that they should be the ‘only’ ones allowed to vote on the subject. But poor people might feel that everyone should get a vote, even though not everyone is the subject of the policy.



“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

Said a US president who wasn’t Trump.



The next steps are going to be very interesting indeed. If Madrid handle it like they’ve handled it so far, there’s going to be a lot of violence.


There are some numbers here It looks like there is in fact a majority against independence although turnout might be an issue in a referendum.



My tenant in Barcelona is against independence


I guess in a vote marred by violence and govt pressure the vast majority of the turnout is the staunch independence supporters so probably isn’t a true indication of opinions.


The use of police para-military violence against civilians will surely decide it.

Mariano Rajoy. Foot. Shot himself in.


Yeah, I would expect that a central government would wish to keep its country as intact as possible. The big question is about how you go about handling dissension, and I think the Spanish government have seriously shot themselves in the foot over it. They’ve not quite generated martyrs out of it, but it feels more like luck than judgement on that front.