Armchair politics


#1782


#1783

Is deporting/rendering stateless/casting adrift your own citizens and residents tolerable to any extent?

EDIT: The Guardian is really going for it and the BBC were unusually hostile this morning. It could be an exciting few days as May is extremely exposed over Windrush as the underlying policy environment is of her design.

And in further good news Arlene Foster is warming up the ‘Ulster-says-NO!’ routine for Mr Barnier this morning and threatening all sorts.

:slightly_smiling_face:

Nice start to the week for Theresa…


#1784

On BBC breakfast telly, Grayling got a fairly easy ride, but the football focus guy gave Diane Abbot a fairly hard time about what immigration targets Labour would deem appropriate.


#1785

:slightly_smiling_face:


#1786

I’d laugh, but what will we get if (when) she goes?


#1787

Hopefully a General Election


#1788

Even that doesn’t fill me with hope, sadly…


#1789

I can’t work out who votes Tory. If a forum full of blokes who have spent a ludicrous amount of money on ridiculous luxury items has only a small number of Tory voters, where the fuck are they?

If it’s just ancient fuckers, then let’s hope that time does its thing soon…


#1790

The whole political scene scene (all parties) seems shambolic at present. I guess it’s just part of the cycles that these things go through (conspiracy theorists may blame Putin-bots, of course).


#1791

Javid for new Home Sec…


#1792

Are you saying we shouldn’t implement any policy unless we can be 100% certain that no mistake will ever be made ? In the end it always comes down to how much error we’re prepared to tolerate. Thinking about it though, perhaps tolerate was a difficult choice of word. On the one hand government might argue that it doesn’t tolerate mistakes - it’s always aiming to drive the error rate down, with a view to getting to zero. On the other hand it doesn’t cancel the policy, which would be a sure-fire way to eliminate the errors if it really wanted to. So does that mean that it’s ‘tolerating’ them ?

This government continues to implement benefit reforms which have driven disabled people to suicide

If they’re prepared to do that then I can quite believe that they’re prepared to crack down on people who weren’t born here, or whose parents weren’t born here, hard enough that errors will inevitably occur.

VB


#1793

I think that a legalese “beyond all reasonable doubt” is a reasonable requirement for deporting someone. I don’t think that this is what has been used though, which is the problem.


#1794

Might make for a shift in “hostile environment” policy


#1795

One of the problems is that disputing/establishing ‘reasonableness’ isn’t cheap. If you make that your criterion then there will always be some poor people who give up the legal fight and end up in a Caribbean country (in the Windrush case) because they don’t want to risk money they don’t have on a legal battle.

VB


#1796

I saw this chap on the news this morning.

It’s so long since I’d seen or heard of him that I’d forgotten he was the Lib Dem leader…


#1797

Clue for Javid. Disabled suicides and torn terrified families are not reasonable.


#1798

I am not talking about mistakes in the implementation of policy. That is the line the Govt is taking and it is tenuous in the extreme.

The Immigration Act of 2014 deleted a clause mentioned in previous legislation that protected long-term British residents from deportation. The Act contained a package of measures aimed at “maximising” voluntary returns through the creation of a very hostile environment for individuals. It was a deliberate erosion of the rights of migrants in general and ethnic and racial minorities in particular. That is, even the most mundane aspects of migration have now become illegal activities – from renting homes to having the right to work and access to healthcare, the civil liberties of immigrants have been gradually and deliberately eroded. These are migrants, that is people with indefinite leave to stay or British subjects. There may be minor mistakes in the application of this policy, although one might very well argue that the entire policy is mistaken given its ‘unforeseen’ impact.

I say all this having returned to the UK as a migrant in 2011. The amount of hassle we are experiencing in getting my wife’s indefinite leave to stay agreed is simply ludicrous in comparison to the 2013 extension. Feck knows what would happen if we didn’t have the all documentation, or the wherewithal to pay the fees, or speak English at least as well as our case handlers. We will go through this all again next year when the Domestic Antipodean applies for citizenship and a passport, which is something to look forward to.


#1799

Indeed. The centre-left seems to have disappeared


#1800

Really?
Whereabouts in the Caribbean would you like to go?
Wish I could afford a trip like that,and you get it free, that is what is wrong with this country, you lot come over here take all our jobs, get to the top of the list for the housing and get free exotic holidays. :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:


#1801

:grin:

You can transport me and mine to Straya for the rest of our natural lives any time you like. I’ll nip around the corner to Tescos and pinch a loaf of bread to ensure I’m qualified if it helps.

:sunglasses: