Brexit (The return of....)


#581

The good old days, we’ll be living the dream soon.


#582

Or it could be a picture of the future when Brexit kicks in


#583

What goes around…


#584


#585


#586

#587

It hasn’t happened in France today. A long way off happening by the sound of it.
It didn’t happen in Holland either. Brexiters clutching at straws is all.
The EU isn’t quite dead just yet.

Just us unfortunately.


#588


#589

France put the gun in its mouth but didn’t pull the trigger. Britain will now be made an example of, pour decourager les autres


#590

Gobels would be proud


#591

The UK put a gun in its mouth (and both feet) and voted to pull the trigger. There is no point blaming the French or Germans or the EU for our own stupidity. You do realise that a hard Brexit will put the UK onto WTO rules. This means that the UK will impose tariffs and quotas on most goods and services that it trades. Fundamentally, Brexit is a massive act of protectionism. The rhetoric about Brexit being about free trade is just rhetoric. It is about as credible as £350million per week for the NHS. I agree entirely about Britain being made an example of, pour decourager les autres, and quite rightly so too. Self-harm (and harming those around you) is to be frowned upon.


#592

Oh yes, we have brought it on ourselves. It baffles me that Brexiters believe that politicians (ours and theirs) will rise above their agendas and put the interests of the people first. When has any politician ever done this? It’s ridiculous.


#593

Panorama may be worth a look tonight although I doubt they’ll have dug as deep as Ms Cadwalladr has.


#594

Creating bespoke Infotainment and having the ability to transmit en masse is an incredibly powerful tool in terms of PR.
I am pleased Murdoch got a mention in the piece as it underscores the connection between the ‘old and new’ implements of manipulation.
The ways an individual forms an opinion are quite fascinating. Whilst Facebook may appear to be an ineffectual toy of children it is actually something very different for many. Messages transmitted through this channel can be decoded as ‘friendly’ they are bespoke and so act as a mirror to cement bias and prejudice or as in the case of fence sitters, form it.

Edward Bernays rather wordily said:

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. …We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. …In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons…who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”
(Bernays is often called ‘The father of PR’, Born: 22 November 1891, Vienna, Austria Died: 9 March 1995)
Another wondrous quip:


#595

Put the gun to its mouth?

Shit a third of France voted for the National Front, and the Socialist and Left wing parties were wiped out… Can you imagine that happening here?

That’s a significant swing to the far/hard right and it’s building, if they’d only suggested Frexit rather than all the other anti-globalisation, and self protectionist shit, they might have done better…

If Macron cocks this up, and he doesn’t really have any experience of this, then this is only the beginning…


#596

This is not just wrong it is stupid. There is a long history of a consensus in France in voting against Le Pen candidacies. When Le Pen senior ran Jacques Chirac obtained 82% of the vote. This was not because 82% approved of Chriac. The left and center parties rally against the far right. Le Pen Snr did not get elected subsequently.

It is not a swing to the far right, as it clear from both the polling and the history of this type of contest is France. There is a core of hard right support everywhere, France, Germany. Italy even the UK :no_mouth:. Frexit/Brexit is anti-globalisation, and self protectionist (to use your somewhat unusual language). You do realise that anti-globalisation is an anti-trade paradigm don’t you? Unless you make extreme assumptions about labour and capital utilisation, autarchy can never be a welfare maximising equilibrium to be very technical. Try reading up on the Heckscher–Ohlin model of international trade. It is really informative.

Macron is in the same camp economically as Chirac. The outcomes of the primaries in France often lead to odd outcomes, and the Leftist candidates were very poor or tainted by the hint of corruption. This may not be the case the next time around.


#597

It was only the centre-left that really suffered, the hard-left actually pulled in over 20% in the first round (and Macron and Le Pen were around the 24% mark, to give some perspective).

The left is still alive and kicking in France, it’s mostly just that the French view Hollande’s presidency as being a complete disaster.


#598

Why? Economic failures? Repeat terror attacks? Something else?


#599

If anything, this highlights the dangers of a two-horse race, or as we have in the UK right now, a de-facto one-horse race.


#600

Yes I know that, but it’s very unusual that a left of centre party doesn’t get into the final vote… So they must be devastated!

Didn’t Le Pen almost double her vote, and isn’t it the ‘strongest showing since WWII’ (The Times).