Career Choices. Well, that escalated quickly

As a kid I used to make computer games for my Spectrum and at one point nearly published one with Codemasters before changing my mind. Teachers said sack that off there no money in video games, they only knew how to churn out future Chartered Accountants, civil servants and lawyers :roll_eyes:.

I graduated with a degree in economics in the early 90’s when the jobs market for this shrank acutely, so on the insistence of my old man I got a job in the car industry. I worked and studied when I wasn’t working and got a degree in mech engineering and that plus an MBA later helped me get to Chief Engineer level. Apart from designing and building BIW car body shell factories and production lines, I spent most of my time in new product introduction and then chassis engineering, more management than design. My last proper job was chassis design and integration for BMW and ‘their new’ Mini. Still miss that to this day but had to move on.

I then spent time in telecoms trying to improve how they developed new products and save them millions by joining things up. Did a bit of contract work back in auto, and even in food manufacturing for M&S, before getting picked up by consulting and once I’d got to director level I fully realised how much I hated corporate consulting and left. I’ve worked with a partner for 4 years now and never been happier - lots of us say this for all kind of scenarios, but I wish I’d done it a lot sooner.

It’s possible I could retire at 55 but more likely I’ll step my days working down at that point and keep going for as long as I get a buzz from the challenge.

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I wanted to be a mechanical engineer, but was warned off that as there were loads out of work, in the UK we just don’t value engineers at all, in most countries it is a career seen in the same light as doctors or solicitors. Went in IT and have regretted it ever since, never mind retirement is but 4 years away.

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I was shit at arts and crafts and I have zero ‘people skills’ so it was always going to be a boring numbers job for me.:slightly_frowning_face:

If I hadn’t fucked my knee up jumping a hurdle when I was 12 then, with the right back-up, I’m sure I could have been a champion triple jumper before anyone had heard of Jonathan Edwards.:weary:

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After I left university I fucked about for years, with a general loathing of corporate culture and the world generally. Ironically I would work hard in the jobs I had, but these were largely McJobs with no fulfillment of progression.

My girlfriend at the time bullied me into applying for Chartered Accountancy, which was quite fun while studying. However, it’s the most dull thing once you’re in steady state.

I got lucky finding a niche in financial modelling and then government procurement consulting, which was with a good team at a good company, and it was the best 8 years of my career. It all went south with both the downturn in government procurement and a takeover by an awful company, but then I got ill, and now I get money for nothing.

The only advice that I ever give to young people is that it’s real, they do need to think about this, and that they will be working for 50 years so it is up to them to make it something interesting and challenging. If they don’t think about it, they will end up underemployed or doing something they don’t like, and it’s a long time for that.

Personally I think that the state does far too little for adult development - there should be ongoing career advice and time off to try new things. It is a societal benefit if people are fully employed and engaged with their work, so the state should take a direct interest in this.

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The key message is it’s never too late to change, you can almost always find a way if you really want to do something. I gave up a well paid procurement job in my early thirties to retrain as an electrician, I thoroughly enjoyed it, but like Jim I prefer the management side to the actual tools. Dealing with jumped up cunts all day, brings a satisfaction that I have never found enjoyable until recently.
I hated working in a record shop because I just lost interest in playing stuff at home. I would never again mix hobby and work…drug dealing being the exception

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I originally bounced back and forward between Journalism (in those days I wasn’t a cunt so wasn’t suited), wanting to get into Electronic Engineering, being a Welder, studying Economics, dropping out, running my own business, professional muso, pub management and Taxi driver.
I wasn’t mature enough to “settle”.

Now I find myself planning for my retirement. Last year I decided it would be at 60 in 2020. Now, due to the fact that I am enjoying what I do now more than ever, it’s all less “set in stone”.

If things continue to go the way they are at the moment, then I can see myself maxing out my pension and not going until 2027.

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we most certainly do (do you mean PhD graduates or students?) - I have 4 vacancies (for PhD holders in a range of Computer Science disciplines) we are struggling to fill. Kings in London has 16 vacancies. But and here is the but, the REF (the research assessment framework - a government thing) has forced us to be very selective.

I worked in the old Myford building, sadly most of it demolished for a tram track now …

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After school I had no idea what I wanted to do. Spent 18 months building three piece suite frames on piece work. Then I landed a job in an engineering firm where I learned on the job. I learned more off the old guys there than any college or uni course.
I moved to a big world leading temperature measurement company in their machine shop. They sent me to college and I went through a full apprenticeship for manual and CNC machining and programming. Resulting in me leading on all the new machine purchasing, set up, programming and proving. I am skilled at programming and operating 4 axis lathes with live tooling, twin spindle lathes with live tooling, three axis machining centres and I had a particularly nice 4 axis machining centre with a 30 palette robot loader. Renishaw probe and laser measurements system. I led the set up and programmed it to work lights out and saved the company a small fortune in the cost of its parts. We made parts for Rolly Polly for the Tornado and advanced thermal imaging and infrared measurement equipment.

For my trouble I was passed over for promotion numerous times because they couldn’t find a programmer and operator to replace me and including overtime just about made average wage. Bob is right engineers in this country get treated like shit, in Germany or the USA I’d have been on at least twice the wage and treated like a professional. In the UK you are seen as no more than a grease monkey.

I miss making things on clever CNC machines but I don’t miss be exploited and made to feel worthless, like the machine shop was a necessary evil rather than the heart of the company.

I moved to work for a National Disabilty Sports Charity and they had the shock of their lives. 8 years later they begged me to come back as they still hadn’t been able to fill my post with the right skill set. (I didn’t go back)

Yes Engineer’s of all kinds are needed to be the foundation of a manufacturing base but until they are valued and treated properly then the UK’s industry will suffer its fate.

Rant over,

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The UK is now nothing more than a service provider, engineering got scrapped a long time ago. The UK have made it so that Engineers are no longer respected or viewed as a good vocation.

In Europe you have to have a degree to call yourself an Engineer otherwise you are a Technician.

In the UK you can attend a 2 week online course to fix washing machines and you’re a repair engineer.

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I should have said that I wanted to be a surgeon when I was at school and that looked all set, had the grades, the steady hands and needlework skills - just one problem, discovered at age 17 I had a serious problem with blood :man_facepalming::crazy_face::laughing:. And that was the end of that career path!

Funny now that I’ve ended up in health, using a lot of the things i learned in engineering, I’ve spent a lot of time with docs and surgeons in any case and it really wasn’t the career for me in reflection.

The general career advice I have is don’t be too fixed on what you think you’re gonna be unless you know and are sure that you’re going to like it when you get there.

And work hard, very hard and opportunities may just find you.

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Fortunately I ended up in engineering by default after I somehow failed a very easy police entrance exam. The careers master took five of us to a local crane company. They offered us all jobs in the spot I finished my apprenticeship in the drawing office and left soon after. Within a few years I had became a subbie and spent ten years working on mostly long term contracts. For the first ten years I really enjoyed my work but working long hours sat mostly at a workstation did get to be a bit of a chore and after 25 years or so I changed careers to health and safety. I would have had little chance of success in this second career without a decent engineering background. I did not really enjoy it like engineering but it was very well paid and meant that retirement at 58 was possible. Going forward I would love a proper home workshop with a lathe and I am working on that.

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Yep I would like a home workshop with a lathe, pedestal drill and 3 axis CNC machining facility.
Ah well I’ll dream on.
As for retirement my ex wife made sure that wasn’t going to happen when she decided some cunt at work was a better bet than me and took half the house in the process.
The upside was I got to have a HiFi set up again (she never tolerated my original set up and it spent 20 years in the loft) and enjoy music again. Every cloud :cloud:

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Have to say that I had no interest in metalwork at school all I remember was making a tin ash tray and kung fu stars to throw at the timetable on the wall Now I love the old machines that were used pre and post wars that kept people going in times of hardship Picked up an old lathe dated 1908 a couple of years ago and it still worked fine

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Although I’ve held quite a few senior positions, directorships etc in construction firms, the power thing has never really done it for me - I have a well developed sense of fair play and always like to be reasonable with those who work for me. I’m not ashamed to admit to being devoted to earning money though, that’s why I’ve always accepted promotion when offered. The way I see it is, if you want nice cars, bikes, hi fis and holidays, you have to work hard and earn the dosh!

Now in the last phase of my career, I find myself surrounded with very highly qualified professional folk, most of them MS graduates who’ve also taken chartered exams. It’s ironic that I earn as much if not more than them with my woodwork O level :rofl: No substitute for experience eh!

I’m really enjoying it at the minute. I’m showing the ropes to two young graduate PMs. Both great lads who are keen to learn. At 63, I don’t want to retire yet - still enjoying myself :smiley:

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She has graduated and is currently on a 4 year contract, which included relocation expenses. She is now no. 2 in her field in Europe.

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Woodwork O Level? If you had worked harder and got an O Level in RE as well you could have been an undertaker :grinning:

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I am an engineer who works in the services sector

All of my adult life has a been a chaotic process of trying (and failing) to unravel the knots of a parental and educational upbringing that instilled into me that I was stupid, lazy and destined for failure, not much helped by depression, autism and sociopathic tendencies (makes you wonder why no-one suggested being dealerscum a LOT sooner…). It certainly made sorting careers out interesting

When I was 13 we had a careers advice day in school - at that point I genuinely wanted to be a public executioner, specifically, a hangman. The careers chap asked me to leave, assumed I was just being a cunt (only partly right) and dropped me in the shit with the deputy head. I hadn’t really grasped we didn’t kill the nastiest pieces-of-work any more, and thought Hangman was a dignified career that wouldn’t exactly have people queueing-up to do…

Around that point I decided that was enough of school and turned my hand to crime, which I had some talent for: burglary, “recycling” pushbikes and motorbikes, usual scrotey kid stuff - so long as no-one was banging on the door, my parents were too Librium-ed up to GAF. That was all still going strong at 15, (albeit I was back in school fairly regularly), when one of the the other little shits I was involved with got pulled and then grassed the rest of us up. I’d already had a wrist-slap recently, so Magistrates packed me off to Verne borstal on Portland for 6 months - a Victorian crime academy basically, and certainly a learning experience - I was out in less than 3 and I knew I couldn’t go “home”, so fucked off up that London for a few months to see what was what, and ended-up in various squats getting as numb as possible or more often just spazzing-out sleeping for days on end.

When the money/opportunities ran out, and I started to grasp how much danger I could be in not having a clue what I was doing, I went back down south to see my Nan and tap her up for some ££, and stayed long enough to find that I could still go and sit my O-levels, which, bizarrely I did, and while I didn’t do well, I passed enough that it was suggested I join the Army and learn a trade.

Big Career Mistake no.1 - I did’t take the offer, instead I fucking stupidly decided I’d go straight and make a go of it (and doss-off from doing a real job for a couple of years) by studying for A-levels at the local shitty tech college. What a fucking waste of time that was - I was far too lazy and immature to study, and bollocksed that opportunity royally, though I did end up back at my parents place for a while…

Towards the end I met an older married nurse and ended up taking-up with her when she bailed on hubby and kid… ugh… I fucked-about with shitty dead-end shop and factory work for a bit, and then she got me enrolled on a training course at the local general hospitals - Operating Dept. Assistant it was called, you train 2 years to scrub-up and assist during surgery and/or work with the anaesthetists to prep drugs, machines, tables etc. Red, wet end of patient care, and it actually suited me cos most people you had to deal with were asleep and not shitting themselves all over the place. Not something I’d ever dreamed of doing exactly, completely random TBH, but it helped pay the bills, albeit pay was abysmal and the unceasing split shifts, nights, weekends soon ran-on as we were always ~30% understaffed and sickies were a way of life for a lot of fuckers. Six years of that, early days of AIDS too - back when you couldn’t even screen people, and I saw some stuff in those days, some of it I wish I could forget…

Without warning or discussion the woman I was with at the time sold the house we were in and fucked-off to a new job in a different town, so I was stuck at me Nan’s for a while until I decided to fuck off the operating theatres job and its long hours/unliveable pay. A job had come up advertising for clinical staff to retrain to code the regional health authority’s first all-singing, all-dancing computer system - better money, 9-5 hours, so I lied about ever having touched a computer, somehow blagged an interview and bullshitted my way into the job.

Training consisted of being dumped in front of an IBM AT and told to get on with it - in a room full of completely clueless people like myself who’d also lied their way in, managed by people who knew nothing about computers or management… Saving grace for all of us was when they took-on some Industrial Release students form the local Poly - those lads actually knew their stuff, and trained us useless lummocks - talkabout arse-about-face…

That dull-as-shit job persisted for some years, until the RHA’s IT dept was privatised - which meant all us useless cunts became a useless private company, which was then sold a couple of years later to an outfit with a vestigial clue what they were doing - and that was very quickly the end of my career in IT…! Not sure I ever did a day’s useful work. Not sure any of them did to be fair. Fucking shameful.

I was out of work for a while, signing-on and scraping by as jobs were scarce in the early 90s, (much to the annoyance of the woman I was with at the time!), when a friend of mine at the Natural History Museum called to let me know they were hiring trainee curators. Despite my profound streak of scroteyness, I had always as a kid loved natural history, and especially anything to do with fossils, and so had somehow kept that going as a hobby through much of my life, especially in the more settled, employed times - and, along the way without meaning to, I’d taught myself a lot, so when it came to it, I not only got an interview, I also managed to bullshit my way into a job - not the one I’d applied to either, but one working on a group of fossils that I really liked and knew a ton about!

That must have been a mistake by the NHM, who notoriously normally kept employees as far as possible from anything that actually interested them! Most of my pay in the early days went on the bloody season ticket from Winchester to South Kensington, but I DGAF at the time, and the 5.50 to Waterloo had some interesting fellow-travellers - various politicians, TV journalists, govt experts, famous solicitors etc - quite an eye and ear-opener that was!

I fucking loved that job with a passion, it was a dream come true, but of course being wrong in the head meant I was bound to fuck it up in time, instead of just cracking-on being grateful. Circumstances didn’t always help mind. I’d been with my then-GF for some years, and in the job for three of 'em when I came home as usual one evening to find all of my possessions on the front lawn and all of the locks in our house changed - not a word had been said. I’d been paying into the mortgage, too, cheeky cunt. It was a shock to say the least, but I loaded what I could into my old LWB Land Rover and fucked-off to find a quiet layby to sleep in.

Drove into work the next day, got a copy of Loot! and managed to get a tiny bedsit in Surbiton sorted quickly. I was about the last person to realise the bird in Winchester had done me a big favour - she was a chronic alkie who it turned-out had been dropping her knickers for absolutely anything with a pulse, and since neither was something I would put up with, binned me off when I started cramping her style. Still, it fucked me up self-esteem wise, and I decided I was probably washed-up human-relationship-wise, so instead I formed an even-stonger bond with overeating and boozing. I probably should have done something about getting my share of the house, as this was the second time I’d walked away from what was partly mine, but in the end I was just glad to be free.

The boozing was very easy to do back then in the NHM - there were a large number of full-time career alcoholics, lots of drugs, every kind of off-piste-bonking imaginable, and every second person had some sort of mental health issue - autism was pretty much a job-requirement; Chris Packham is not special… 25 years ago it was all largely swept under the carpet and called eccentricity.

FWIW, I’ve blown a lot of great chances over the years - I was offered the bedsit in Surbiton for peanuts but decided I didn’t want to be tied down with property again, instead I devoted myself to getting as many assorted knee-tremblers as were available and drinking heavily in local pubs. It was routine to go for “lunch” bang-on noon, and not actually go back again - drinking solidly until closing time. For the last 8 years I was on 10-14 pints a day, sometimes more if it was a party, and towards the end had as many as 3 mistresses as well as the main on the go. If this sounds fun, it actually wasn’t much, filling those holes didn’t fill the really big one, plus I was up to nearly 20 stone, light blue-grey in colour and looked about 70…

I’d had enough of it at the end, but I didn’t really consciously know it, and at the time I thought I wanted to make a go of the main relationship, escape the madness and reboot my actual working career, which by this time had gone from profoundly loving the subject and the work, to developing a mix of loathing and guilt about my failure to ever really make enough progress. I’d spent enough money in pubs to have bought a 3-bed semi in the suburbs outright, ruined several other people’s marriages, devoted insane amounts of time to winding-up senior management and had started coming out with some pretty deranged behaviours - threats, paranoia, that kind of thing…

Also, by then I’d taken to dossing in a filthy box-room in a colleagues spectacularly skanky former gasboard flat - possibly the last open-to-the-outdoors unheated flat in London - I mean, the guy was a Professor at the University of Greenwich and this place was worse than some of the squats from me yoot… Anyway, I prolly gave him more shit than I should and he was keen to GTFO me without any confrontation as I’d acquired a reputation as a sketchy nutter long since - so when a job came up in the University of Oxford he sang my (undeserved) praises, and pointed me in that general direction.

Like the twat I am, I saw it as an opportunity to escape the huge mess I was making of something good, and get my main relationship back on line… My gift for bullshitting my way through interviews once again saw 5 other much better candidates lose a chance to do a good job they deserved so that I could fanny-about with an ongoing series of delusions of sorting my shit out. I thought I was making a fresh start…

In reality I was changing the place, not the job, which was pretty much the same, but now I was working with a bunch of uptight and MASSIVELY snobbish twats, surrounded by highly-entitled teenagers who got on my tits royally, and expected to somehow magically step into a retired colleagues shoes seamlessly and do exactly what he had done for nearly 50 years… To this day it amazes me I lasted 10 years - some of it I learned to love: teaching school age kids could be huge fun - they kind of can’t hide their love and enthusiasm for a thing, and are so easy to get engaged with things if you’re passionate about them yourself and don’t talk to them like … well… like they’re kids. The undergrads were almost all complete twats, they are, after-all the people being raised to run the country… Postgrads however were almost all amazing, and I somehow fell back into the role I’d had at the NHM of being a go-to for the square pegs who were struggling with the transition to a research degree and needed some help and motivation, mostly life and Earth sciences, but curiously quite a lot of people in the arts too. That was probably the most rewarding work I ever did, and I still miss it, and like everything, it was an accident that I don’t even understand how it happened.

Still Oxford wasn’t really the place for me - it did rescue me from myself, inadvertantly, but the relationship I’d wanted to rekindle was just a case of history repeating itself. The lass in question had already long since taken-up with someone else, but left it until she was well and truly pregnant with his kid to tell me to clear my stuff out from our house (which was in any case hundreds of miles away with us having to live apart through the working weeks), and once again I walked away…

I stuck Oxford out for quite a few years after that, but my heart was never in it, and the black dog stuff really had me in its grip. To occupy myself in the days and nights alone I got more and more into music and hifi, joined various forums, not least being one of the original two-dozen that bailed out of the Hifi Choice one and helped to get the Wigwam started. Curiously for an online thing, the forum proved to be a social lifeline, something we all take for granted now. Never expected to meet the love of my life on one, that is for sure, but astoundingly just as I’d accepted I was unfit for human consumption, I met Sam (who will confirm I was right all-along).

That was the nail in Oxford’s coffin, the job had changed over the years, and was changing again - ever fewer people, ever less money, ever longer hours, and then they started telling us we had to work 3 weekends out of 4 - unpaid, cos, you know, you’re an academic, your work is vocational, you should do this… Weekends were the only time I got to see Sam - 200 miles away - so that was not on. The writing was on the wall, my no-shows got me into disciplinary trouble, post after post was being occupied by volunteers or kids straight out of college paid 1/3 of what I was, and I was the opposite of a “yes” man…

Fortunately I was enough of a thorn in my boss’s side that I negotiated a good redundancy settlement - “pay me to fuck off” - which left me to try to make a living aged nearly 50 from the one last thing I knew a very small amount about…

Never mind the fact that I’m hugely unsuited to it, nor the fact I had fuck-all to invest in it - it was flog hifi or go hungry… I moan sometimes about the minority of dickheads, but the fact is most customers are anonymous names the other side of a paypal account with whom you have no contact at-all. Still seems barmy, but that’s how it is. The ones who are old school and actually interact are the ones who make it worthwhile and fun - the ones you end up being friends with instead of dealer/client - swap music, all that… Thank fuck for it, cos life is pretty good now - only took half a century to sort-out. I’ll never be able to afford to retire, but luckily Sam can more than fend for herself financially and knew all along what a useless twat she was taking-on: good job she likes my cooking…

Well, fuck that went on a bit - TL;DR - if I give you advice: do the opposite, I haven’t go a clue!

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I used to love taking stuff apart when I was a kid, and also used to love making model kits when I was a bit older. This evolved to tinkering with old cars and motorbikes, and then electrionics and computers. I did love science at school, so it was always going to be something around being a mechanic or engineer. I am particulalry interesed in aviation and always wanted to become a pilot (so did many kids, I guess) - probably my biggest regret that I didn’t try harder down that road. It’s a bit late now.

I enjoyed tinkering with computers at school and college and ended up going to Uni to do electronic engineering, but I have always found software easy, so ended up going into software design in telecoms. Speedysteve who some of you know actually interviewed me for my first job out of Uni!

Worked various jobs in telecoms for a number of companies, got involved in a startup, which sadly failed, went contracting, etc. These days, I get frustrated with the way IT is going - I like to make make a distinction between developers (who can code) and engineers (which is a different mindset - more about problem solving). These days, it seems IT is infested by so called developers who are more interested in the technology, than focussing on delivering software that delivers solutions for the business. Basically, failed Apple and Google wannabees.

Partly for the reasons above, I’ve moved out of coding these days, but enjoy problem solving, which my current role allows me to do and I get to work in a variety of business areas.

I still love making things with my hands, though, hence the DIY Audio stuff - it’s as much about the building for me as the sound. And also the learning and exploring.

I do agree with the comments above about engineering being undervalued in this country. This seems to be a peculiary Briitsh mind set, where managers are considered of higher station and dserve to be paid more than engineers. Look at the leardership programmes many companies have - Really, the last thing most companies need is more leaders. Management is just another skill set (a valuable one) to me. The USA and countries like Germany place a much higher value on engineers. Such a shame.

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