What’s that got to do with taking the statue down though?
It’s the debate and our understanding of it that matters.
Knee jerk decisions are never ideal. At least in Bristol there have been sensible discussions over months and years about change. With considered outcomes.
Take them all down strikes the wrong note with me instinctively. Maybe in time some should be “moved”. No right answers.
Except that there were no outcomes and people got fed up waiting.
There is no question that this whole debate wouldn’t have been happening right now if it wasn’t for direct action.
Maybe this whole fixation with statues at the moment is because it is fairly easy to focus on rather than the issues that need addressing.
They really aren’t.
The only plinth I have ever paid any attention to in Trafalgar is the fourth plinth. I think that statues should all be temporary, say for 20 years, subject to a local vote. They could be renewed for another 20 years at a time. There could be rules like the blue plaques, whereby people must be dead a certain time before they’re allowed a statue.
Exactly.
The statues are red herrings. It’s about the debate.
Stuff did happen in Bristol. Schools have changed names!
Getting rid of the statues just helps forget and comfort (ok, it does send a good signal but at what cost?).
Keep people talking. Thats what matters.
I wasn’t commenting on the decision to take the statue down. I think you should re-read the quote I clipped where you were suggesting that we should not re-write history. Are you suggesting that the Victorian narrative was correct? I’m all for honouring the great and the good. But let’s not honour the mass-murderers and their ilk, particularly where a revision of the correct historical record has created a false impression of who are the great and the good.
Lol you’re really hard of thinking aren’t you? 
True, I saw that piece on Colston Junior School on TV the other day.
Meanwhile the stop and search stats don’t add up.
Maybe taking my comment too literally.
We can re write our view of history and correct inaccuracies…
We can’t pretend we didn’t put a statue up and condone someone just by now taking it down.
It’s not easy to do this by message at all!
Do not go there.
It’s a totally separate area and a minefield.
Just consider the profiling of a terrorist around the flight security changes. Now, would you want profiled stops, or would you want old white grannies stopped to make sure there was absolutely no bias?
I’m playing devils advocate as I know it can then be used as a cover for racist stereotyping… but this is a subject area that no politician has solved in twenty years!!
It’s a proper clash between principle and practice. Horrible area to try and unpick. It should be simple: just don’t be racists.
It’s not, and some of that is down to current gang culture and weapon use.
Terrorism legislation has been used far more against NI groups than Islamist groups.
Did you know you can stop a person And detain at a port for 5 hours with no reasonable grounds?
Makes a stop and search look like a walk in the park.
History repeats itself. This might be tl;dr but bear with me.
In 1979 there was a terrible fire in Woolworths in Manchester and 17 people died.
About 18 months later I was 22 and surveying Woolworths stores up and down the country while working for a fire protection company.
I had an appointment at the Brixton store and did my job. The warehouse guy who escorted me round suggested that he let me out of the store through a fire exit at the back as it saved a long walk back and round to my car. I walked out of the exit and was literally grabbed on the arm by a Policeman.
I got turned round told to put my hands on the wall and spread my legs and got a full body search.
I tried to explain what I had been doing and why but he was not interested. kept asking me what I had nicked and why I was ‘sneaking out a back door’. In my briefcase was a file with a letter from Woolworths Architects dept confirming my appointment and I had business cards etc on me.
Eventually he stopped shoving me around and let me ‘prove’ why I was there.
He gave me a warning about my ‘behaviour and attitude’ and let me go.
I remember thinking if that was happening at 3.00 in the afternoon on Brixton High Road to a white man in a jacket and tie what would happen to a black guy in dreads at night.
2 weeks later the 1981 Brixton Riots went off.
I wasn’t in the least bit surprised, after that the SPG was disbanded.
I get the fact that we have had massive cuts in the police and they are often single manned and relatively vulnerable, maybe part of the answer to the issues is to recruit more police, but the basic issues are self fulfilling, because of the fears around ‘gang’ culture the police stop more black youths, the kids know they are more likely to be stopped and get arsey with the police as they feel (maybe rightly) that they are being targeted, the police deal with this by taking less chances and being more aggressive, and round and round it goes until it explodes, and we get another Brixton, or Tottenham. or Bristol or Toxteth.
This has been going on for 40 years now and we still don’t seem any closer to a solution
Cause or effect ?
Tangents and huuuge discussions.
I’m trying not to be led astray.
Wrong, a statues purpose is to idolise its subject, it teaches nothing. If you want to learn about history you read books or visit a museum, you dont stare at a statue.
Wrong again, there was discussion, there was no outcome apart from inaction. If there had been considered outcome the statue would have gone years ago.
Wrong yet again, it was discussed but nothing changed. The discussion has restarted after last weeks events.
The pertinent thing is that you had to go back to 1979 for an example. The last time I got stopped and searched was probably the mid 90s., and when I go out now it wouldn’t be on my mind at all that I might be stopped.
Friends who are black still worry about this when we are out, especially late at night and particularly in the city.
You’ve deflected and changed the subject repeatedly on this thread. Was it the manner that the statue was taken down that upsets you?
Wrong is a perspective.
There is no wrong.
And history is what has happened. You can reconsider and reinterpret it. You can’t change it. Moving the statue doesn’t change it.
Anyway, it’s impossible to debate such a challenging topic in a forum thread.
