I've just bought a very cheap Pro-ject RPM 4

As part of my ongoing process of buying up cheap (mostly broken) kit, fixing it (well, bodging it, mostly), I’ve just acquired a Pro-ject RPM 4. It hasn’t arrived yet, but looks as if it’s in very nice condition, complete with dust cover and in the original spec (with Ortofon 510 cartridge). I think it will owe me about £60 once I’ve sold on the included Phono Box MM/MC, so not much of a risk, I reckon.

I’m not sure I’ve ever actually heard a Pro-ject deck, so I’ve no idea what to expect. I think a new stylus might be in order (is the 510 a decent cartridge?) and a new belt, some oil etc.

If my assumption is correct (and it is as per the original spec), are there any sensibly priced upgrades to consider? I believe the s/e upgrade pack (new belt, pulley etc) is well thought of at £30 or so, for example. Is it worth messing with new platters, mats and suchlike? I don’t mind spending a few quid in order to get the best out of it.

The deck will be partnered with the MF X-T100 amp I recently bodged back to life (with help) and a pair of Castle Severn 2 (which I fixed with some glue). It will be a proper bargain second system if all goes to plan…

Cheers

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It’s a good TT and well worth 60quid :+1:

Thanks. That’s about the cost of a modern plasticrap Crosley, so I guess it should be fine by comparison.

Fingers crossed.

My big box of audio jumble reveals a spare Ortofon MC25 FL with plenty of life left in it, so there’s an upgrade in the making…

I get the impression that Pro-ject stuff is good value at its various price points but tanks somewhat second hand. I am happy enough with my Tubebox DS for the small amount of dosh it cost me s/h. Probably lack of brand charisma or similar marketing ackamaracka.

Well, the price I paid certainly suggests you are correct.

I had set my sights on a 1980s spec Rega 3 (or similar) but the used prices on those have gone a bit daft in recent years. Not expecting the Pro-ject to be quite in the same league, but reviews are generally positive. We’ll see.

The ubiquity of Pro-ject is what stuffs its used prices. I rate it highly, and my Xtension 10 is going nowhere any time soon.

I particularly like the RPM-4 - that small form-factor, plus they just sound good.

I’d not go changing too much, because it’s both easy and pointless to go ‘Trigger’s Broom’ on it - the motor, bearing, &c are not up to dealing with heaver platters, weights, &c.

As you say - clean and re-oil the bearing, and replace the belt (amazing how much difference a fresh belt makes!), and go over the whole thing making sure now securing screws &c have worked loose, then see if there’s anything on Vinylengine about servicing the tonearm. Use some contact-cleaner on the cartridge tags and phono lead contacts (think these have a detachable DIN-type lead-out on the underside).

If humanly possible, get it on to a TT wall shelf, if not, a decent-quality isolation platform.

I’d also (patiently) look for a lowish hours Ortofon Quintet MC - they pop-up silly cheap sometimes, and are basically a Cadenza in a cheap suit - another underrated piece.

Oh yeah - the arms (and Ortofon carts esp) are very sensitive to setup, especially VTA (not even joking) get it near by eye then use your ears to balance bass/treble.

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Thanks, that all sounds promising.

I truth, I can’t promise there will be no Trigger’s Brooming - just a bit, for the sake of bling, perhaps.

Bearing oil - I have none. What do you recommend?

Vinyl Engine doesn’t want me for a sunbeam, it seems. My account lapsed some years ago and I haven’t been able to rejoin.

Anyway, will keep you posted.

Have a rummage in the garage: any good quality engine oil - most especially fully synthetic stuff for diesel engines - will be fine.

People LOVE to obsess over this stuff (and @Ruprecht will be along to chide me, presently), but it’s a VERY undemanding use compared with what oil has to suffer inside a car engine!

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I think @FatCuntTroller had one of these for a while and rated it :+1:

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I like this answer. It is a good answer.
One more for my list of uses for leftover beef dripping…

The xtension 10 is a superb deck. I had the Perspex 6 SB, which also has a magnetic levitating chassis. IMHO there’s not much point spending more, vinyl has all kinds of limitations and once the deck gets to the level of something like an extension10, I’m not sure there’s anything left to gain apart from better carts.

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As many on here would assert, its performance can be comfortably exceeded, but at a cost uncomfortably far beyond anything I can entertain :laughing:

It’ll do me :ok_hand:

I’m not sure that’s really true though. Like cables and other associated hifi wank. Vinyl is a massively bandwidth, dynamic range and resolution limited format. It doesn’t take much to get pretty much everything out of those grooves that there is to find.

I’ve heard SME 20/2A’s with 10k carts and 15k phono stages. I’m not sure it actually sounds any “better” than a 1200GR2 with a hana umami on the end of it.

There’s a lot of nonsense in turntable land. The only job a turntable really needs to do, is hold a perfect speed, and allow the cart to be held in the correct orientation. This is achievable fairly cheaply.

This idea of blacker blacks, bigger bass etc…. The only thing in control of those variables is the cartridge. 33rpm is 33rpm, no matter how stupid a linear power supply you put in front of it.

Maybe I’m cynical, but as with all things Hifi, people who have spent a lot of money, can convince themselves of a lot of things.

The format itself is flawed, and you can’t extract “more” from it by throwing money at the problem

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For a little more perspective. I know someone that had an xtension10 with a decent clear audio cartridge.

He then went to an avid reference, and some crazy £7k phono stage. Neither of us are convinced it sounds any better.

Certainly looks the part. But it’s a ball ache to use, wobbly as hell, and takes up half his rack!

I’ll leave vinyl wank to those who seem to worry about it much more. These (fairly good) ears can’t tell the difference.

Interesting. My main deck is an Orbe with an AN Arm One and Hana SL.

I’m bored with it, and over the years I’ve actually become almost afraid of its complexity and lack of user-friendliness.

All a bit odd really.

If vinyl ever dies out altogether, it will be because of a lack of remote control and Alexa compatibility. That, and cartridge alignment - who can be arsed with that these days?

If only it didn’t sound so convincing.

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I went down the complex route too for a while with Michell stuff, technoarm and a transfiguration cart.

I’d be lying if I said the technics sounds any worse. Its operationally silent, zero rumble, noise or otherwise, the arm is completely adjustable, and it sounds, to me, completely audibly transparent to whatever the cart is doing.

It’s also instant to start, zero pain to set up, and no fuss in any real way.

I doubt I’ll ever go back to a complex turntable

I think this is where quite a lot of old, die hard audiophiles end up, me included. On the way up, you are happy to invest and add faff, complexity, effort to the mix, to achieve that elusive nirvana sound quality.

Then, your hearing noticeably deteriorates, you realise that all that extra investment leads to marginal gains, at best, faff is meh, complexity becomes aggro and you really liked what you listened on, 20 years ago, better. No wonder ‘hifi’ is dying.

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Well while my hearing is still pretty solid (can hear clean from 21hz to 17khz), I do find that I tend to enjoy my systems more when they’re less high end. I think the expectations of super high end kit are rarely met with their actual performance. Especially when midrange kit in the kinda £1k region is so unbelievably competent these days.