with these ears? I don’t think so!
Thunderstruck could sound 
How about combining what I like…
Squarereial Le Cléac’h, if such could ever be worked out geometry wise.
Nice Compression Driver on the end, taps and ports in the corners.
Just how to get enough room for the MF?
Could use 8" LF if 12" won’t fit.
Think
Without the little horn at the front.
Tap and port hole drilled in the corners.
Probably never get near 1/4 wavelength relative distances…
Guess that’s why Danley uses 50 or 60 degree conicals.
Would look epic though😀
Best of all worlds? Never say never.
Meanwhile I might hire a pair of Danley SM60Fs for a weekend, to see what the fuss is about and evaluate the BMS 5CN160 dual concentrics.
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Generally thought that a square or any other shape Le Cléac’h with taps and ports wouldn’t work as the narrow throat with holes would disrupt the HF too much.
Meanwhile, I’ve set up the system so I can switch back and forth in a few seconds between
3 way Synergy + subs
to
5 way (Raal, S2s, Synergy MF & LF) + subs.
Also added a resistor in series to the BMS4550 HF.
There’s chat about it on a Le Cléac’h horn thread from way back.
Acts as more than just a dB reducer apparently, as an L-Pad would do.
Changes impedance. It’s a subtle tweak.
I tried 10ohm - too dull, then 5ohm - too bright but nearly there.
Had 6.8ohms in my speaker level resistor store (from many moons ago L-padding the analogue 5-way conicals into shape!)
It’s definitely softened the presentation.
Also tried a higher X/O point of 1200Hz.
Whilst the BMS can be crossed as low as 800Hz it’s with more distortion that low.
1200 is about as far as the MFs will reach to without dip in SPL between them.
Gap closed to the S2s and I still like / prefer even the Synergy cohesion.
Compromises with everything.
Now I have 2 horn systems, with different and interesting and great sound presentation in one!
Which do I prefer today?
The Synergy system does ACDC much better - kicks ass!
The 5way does the emotional difficult female vocal of say Rihanna’s - Lift me up track(wife’s choice system tester), better.
The BMS driver is probably about half was run in.
I read somewhere, a new compression driver takes about 1 month at normal home listening levels to break in.
A few hours only at PA levels 
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I decided to look at using the Vitavox S2s, a sound I love, on the back of the Synergy SH50 horns.
I like a lot of what the SH50s do, but not the HF stuff.
Is it driver, BMS4550 or horn?
Cutting the horn end off some fraction of an inch to go from 1" to 1.5" easy, or as suspected I’d run into the 5" MF drivers before I get to 1.5" - just bore out and shape a new 1.5" diameter throat, in the existing horn walls and flare accordingly.
I could make an adapter to go from the new 1.5" to usual 1" too, should I wish to refit the BMS driver.
Trickier was the length of the Vitavox driver. The diaphragm is about 4" back from the exit…
Most modern compression drivers are short.
I needed to find out if the 1/4 wavelength thing is a) from the horn throat, b) if Danley took the length of the BMS 4550 driver (from exit to diaphragm) into consideration.
The patent and drawing doesn’t cover that, as far as I can see.
The former makes it child’s play.
The latter is problematic. I don’t think there enough room then.
I’ve seen a TAD2001 on the back of other MEH / unity horns (forerunner to Synergy) creations. Different geometries to the SH50 maybe.
Here’s the pic
The diaphragm is around about where the silver ring is - long way back.
Note there are no LF woofers here.
3 Likes
Bit of research
Internet search - the question had of course already been asked
This question was answered with, “it’s the longest of the 3”, Inc the compression driver depth then…
But then,
Gedlee
“It is my opinion that the 1/4 wave rule is not necessary and I believe that Tom’s second patent removes it. One simply wants the drivers as close together and as far down the device as possible. Everything else is taken care of with EQ (to the extent that is possible.)”
I just had to try it with the S2s and see how it measures / sounds…
I got an okay from the MEH experts on DIYaudio - assuming DSP time aligning to compensate for the extra distance, diaphragm to MF taps.
Perfect indoor weather, I cracked on and modded the horn throat to be a perfect 1.5" / 38.1mm.
Will be fitting the spare screw on ring adapters, I turned / thread cut ages ago…
Driver and Le Cléac’h horn (latter on hold for the moment)
Trial fitting
1" Ferrite BMS 4550 Vs 1.5" Alinco Vitavox S2
Got the 1st one done, set up, and then compared S2 on Le Cléac’h with the Synergy SH50 hybrid vs full S2 in Synergy.
At this point the Raal tweeters were not on.
6 Likes
I always find comparisons; old left Vs new right, or vice versa rather difficult.
Listening in mono is not very nice either or revealing.
I usually go ahead and build/convert the second one to match, just to confirm suspicions, one way or another.
I enlisted the help of wifey’s ears too.
She thought she loved the S2s on Le Cléac’h, the latest hybrid Le Cléac’h/Synergys were a hit with her!
However, hearing the Le Cléac’h side verses the Synergy with S2 side, it was not so clear.
The Synergy side made the Le Cléac’h side sound a bit congested and even dare I use that word, coloured!
More horn somehow!
The Synergy side is clearer, cleaner and crisper.
Still had that richer 1.5" throat, 3" diaphragm tone though. Neat trick!
This was without much setting up on it too.
I worked away yesterday to covert the left side to match.
Here is the S2 poking out the rear🙂 nice and accessible.
Foam seal and bit of tape stops the LF leaking out.
Can always turn a nice trim ring if these turn out to be keepers.
A simple blanking plate if the BMS’s are too be used for PA…
The BMS4550s are in the the parts bin😃
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Once both were sorted it was time to set up the quick way - crossovers chosen where the natural cutoff and taps / ports are designed.
325Hz and 954Hz or thereabouts.
Then I gave them some X/O assistance to kill of stray frequency amplitude where it shouldn’t be.
Not yet the full Danley setup aiming for flatish phase plot the whole way.
That will come later.
All done. Back up off the floor.
It’s like staring into the abyss with low evening lights.
It’s a really nice sound.
I can report there’s absolutely nothing wrong with the Synergy / SH50 concept, design etc.
I just had to use a HF driver I love the sound of.
I could hear their potential, hence sticking with it.
The larger compression driver and the sound of a straight-sided vs. curved (narrow) throat horn.
Sounding more open and natural.
I’ve got a strong feeling these will be the defacto system now until I can figure out how to make SM60 alikes to try or some other Synergy angle that takes my fancy.
Tweaking the phase plot will occupy me for a while😃
If you like horns, the effortless dynamics and full frequency coverage, but want a cleaner less horny sound, I can recommend the Synergy concept
13 Likes
Come on guys…
Get building👍 Nothing stopping you now!
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The Synergy horns continue to impress.
Clean, detailed and coherent is how I’d describe them, of course different verses my old system with Le Cléac’h and Tractrix.
That system really needed a bigger room for the sound to integrate.
The SH50 are integrated at the horn mounting already.
Reading some old posts from all over various fora;
One guy on the Cat forum who’d listened to SH50s way back, said he liked them, but wished they had that Vitavox S2 sound
I had no idea about that when I converted mine to the S2 sound.
Another wrote about them being great in Home cinema setups and that Bill Gates and George Lucas had them in their systems.
This was a few years ago so who knows now?
This got me thinking of turning my room into a dual purpose hifi / home cinema room.
How to allow 2 channel hifi in 4/5way with existing amps, and then do 5.1 with the SH50s as L and R and Tapped horn subs as Sub?
Can probably do without a centre, the cinema guys reported some SH50 setup like that.
I guess it’s an all new DSP 5/6/7.2 pre amp that can feed my various power amps and configure to each - does such exist.
4 Likes
There’s a miniDSP Flex8 HT. Home Theatre in mind…
8 outputs.
ARC(E) / Hdmi input and also SPdif and USB.
DIRAC.
Could solve all.
As long as it could have multiple setups with different PEQs / X/Os for hifi and then other setup for 6.2, that can be configured to the different inputs, it could work.
1 Like
I had a minidsp a few years ago, you could upload multiple files and have them as presets via buttons on the front or using an Apple TV remote or leave a PC connected via USB and switch/change them via the software
I wasn’t overly impressed with the DAC/ADC though, room correction was good but it made the overall sound worse.
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Yeah I’ve heard such reports in the past putting me off miniDSP and keeping me on Najda…
I would only use IIR PEQs or FIR if it did that.
Proper FIR or a mix would be great.
Wonder if they’ve upped their game?
I wouldn’t use ADC.
Would the HT version sound as good as the hifi version? Another worry.
This is answering many of my questions
And
Will take a while to get though, even for me.
TLDRman well😂
There is this.
Interesting. I’ll have to read up on that one.
I’m not hung up about balanced though.
If only one could have them all on trial and test setup / listen 
Recalling the schematic
Reality is finally catching up.
Got the 2nd reclining sofa in place now.
Screen is up and single hifi rack replaced by a low unit.
Room decluttered.
The screen looks quite small in the pic, but it’s quite big in reality.
The front seats look nearer than they are too.
There’s enough room for all to recline.
With the rear seats on 8" platforms, the view of the screen is unimpeded.
All seats see both horn inner sides of the SH50s, so you hear both pretty well.
It’s fine for Cinema. Most action is the centre and the tapped horn subs😈
For hifi the front sofa moves out parallel to the side wall, as does the front recliner.
Can then either have the 2 seater sofa in the middle or full selfish single mode - rear sofa also to the left side wall and front recliner in the centre as near or far as you like.
We’re having a great time watching movies and the whole family can enjoy the room.
Hifi wise it all sounds as good.
The SH50s move forward on aluminium channel rails nice and easy. Have then 3ft to the front wall.
I can also easily try different positions, 1ft, 2ft etc.
The sofas are on those Teflon slider feet pads, quite large ones.
They are great!
Makes reconfiguring the room a cinch.
18 Likes
That’s a good job of hiding the tapped horn subs!!
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Recently I’ve been integrating the Raal Lazy ribbons with the SH50s.
Got a sound I really like.
Going to be attending a small hifi gathering at a small/medium sized hall late summer.
Planning for that…
The SH50s are on the menu of course.
I’ve been hankering to install the full compliment of 2 LF drivers and 4 MF drivers per cab - this is the perfect excuse.
Sub wise, I thought about renting a Danley TH18, but I can make something for less money and then move it on or use it for up coming weddings etc, as suits.
My tapped horns would be good, but they are too long and big to move…
I’ve settled on a Lab12 TH sub.
I happen to have a Eminence Lab12 in stock🙂
Something like this 30" X 60"
Will just about fit with the SH50s and Amps etc in the car or def a small van car.
The SH50s do down to nearly 50Hz so could mesh well.
As the listening area won’t be that big, one should be adequate.
Getting the base of the SH50s up around seated head height will be key. Angled down too.
Also found these cutaway pics of the SH60.
Helps envisage what’s going on.
The 60 degree angle horn centre along after the 50.
They used an even more powerful LF driver and 6 mid frequency drivers but of 4" diameter instead of the SH50s 5". Needed 2 more drivers to keep up.
They give a good idea of the intervals regardless of angle.
Now to send in my cutting list for the TH sub and get building.
8 Likes
Before any sub work, I got ‘full on’ interested.
Here is the Christmas tree DIY SH50 (full complement of 7 drivers).
All went pretty smoothly.
Trial fitting
This lot weighs 37.5kgs.
The rear chamber weighs 20kgs.
So 57.5kgs in total.
2 more MFs X 1 more LF driver.
Extra taps and ports etc.
The best bit with this format is it obviates the need to halve the rear chamber volume.
This simplified things.
I took the opportunity to use the 6 bolt securing method - ala Danley.
Long bolts through the rear and into the horn section secured by threaded nuts.
This is a much more superior way of locking the two halves together.
I also have a screw in each corner just to pull the rear onto the sealing gasket.
Initial listening impressions next.
14 Likes