It’s always about money, usually disguised as something else.
“Blade runners” 
I will bet good money that at least three of them think that they’re the leader of the gang, and they’ve given themselves little pirate names like Storm Justice and Freedombringer.
2 Likes
Seems an odd concept to me; it has been said that 90% of cars (and bikes as well) seen in London are ‘compliant’.
That being the case, natural wastage will see this figure drop- considering age of some of these vehicles.
If they were so poisonous, why not simply ban them?
Instead, one can pay £12.50 to drive around in a vehicle ‘poisoning’ people.
I don’t believe the ‘powers that be’ are in touch with the reality of the human beings that work in occupations that London- and the rest of the the UK- rely on.
These people are often on or just over the Living Wage and have been disproportionately affected by the Cost of Living Crisis.
They are also in occupations that most people wouldn’t even consider due to shifts, antisocial hours and shite conditions…
With Rent spiralling out of control- assuming one can actually find anywhere to rent, I would imagine many don’t have a ‘compliant’ vehicle.
These people do not deserve the opprobrium they recieve.
There is a lot of anger about ULEZ and the rate at which cameras are being removed or damaged- even armoured units- is increasing…
Last time I was aware of such anger was the Poll Tax situation in the 1980’s.
To clarify, I am not a Climate Change denier. I am not against progressive change either.
As a bus driver, I am actively taking part in helping to reduce the amount of car journeys in the small part of Greater London where I work.
If I (could afford to) live there, I wouldn’t need a car…
If wages outside of London weren’t so shite, I would drive locally, but when I passed an interview at a local operator, I was advised to work in London as pay was better…
5 Likes
The majority of poorer households do not have a vehicle of any kind. I posted the stats up-thread.
Inner London
Household income < £10k - 78% do not own a car
Household income < £20k - 64% do not own a car
Outer London
Household income < £10k - 70% do not own a car
Household income < £20k - 53% do not own a car
In the borough where I live, Lambeth, which is about to get swallowed up by the ULEZ, 58% of all households regardless of income do not own a car or van.
In general 56% of London (inner and outer) households do have a car or van. The rate obviously goes up the further you get from the centre.
There is a funky interactive map here
This is before we start talking about compliant or not.
1 Like
Yes I did see this. Very interesting. What seems to be missing is information about occupations.
Which is the main thrust of my post.
At the moment, in my industry, shortages are severe and Stagecoach is drafting Driving Staff from Scotland to cover duties in London.
If the people in the statistics that you quoted are for the most part Retail Workers, like a number of my passengers, they can get to work without a car.
Also, I agree that for the most part car ownership in London isn’t necessary as Transport provision is excellent.
I also said that if I could afford to live there, I wouldn’t run a car. 
I do like the idea of rebranding ULEZ as “pay to poison” 
3 Likes
I’ve had a little think about it, and sorry, I don’t buy this comparison.
The poll tax was a flat tax on existence, regardless of your means. The poorer you got, the harder it hit you.
To fall foul of the ULEZ
- you own a car (the poorest don’t)
- that car is non-compliant (I’m sure you know the 10% figure)
- you can’t or won’t use public transport to go about your business
- you won’t use the scrappage scheme
That demographic is starting to look pretty niche to me.
1 Like
inner London
Household income < £10k - 78% do not own a car
Household income < £20k - 64% do not own a car
Outer London
Household income < £10k - 70% do not own a car
Household income < £20k - 53% do not own a car
The actual number of households in London who have an income of less than 10k a year must be minuscule . You would either need to be unemployed, a student or single and working less than 20hrs a week on minimum wage. Even someone on state pension brings in more than 10k. These percentages are trying to paint a picture but there are no actual numbers behind it. The ULEZ is going to hit working families already paying extortionate rents, fuel and food costs. I’m completely behind making the air quality better but they need to think of better ways than stealth taxing the poor.
1 Like
My brother has been trying to find a first car for his son who is 17 this year. They’ve had a nightmare finding a small petrol engine car. He said that most of the garages they’ve tried have said that anything within 50 miles of London is being snapped up by people because of ULEZ at the moment. People are even buying off the website where they’ve added a listing but not uploaded the photos yet.
Going to have to agree to disagree, I’m afraid. Perhaps we have different opinions on what ‘poor’ means; if I have used this term, then perhaps I would have been better off saying something like those less able to afford £12.50 per day, etc.
I am also not comfortable with being considered ‘niche’ as this narrative can only further divide people.
Really unfortunate that anywhere 50 miles from London is basically a movie set from The Road. 
Corrected for accuracy
Only meant that it’s clearly not an unsurmountable problem for most people. Frankly I don’t give a fuck, if you want to live and drive in London then you pay the associated costs or move.
Didn’t realise so many cities already had lez
Birmingham
Bristol
Bath
Dundee
Portsmouth
Bradford
Sheffield
As well as London/Glasgow
1 Like
I’m a bit surprised that market forces haven’t persuaded dealers to shift cars in from the provinces.
From a buyer’s point of view I guess if they’re bargain-hunting (and given what the insurance for a 17 year old will cost, they probably have to be) then they want to check any vehicle over before parting with their cash. It’d be tedious and costly to drive all the way out to Norfolk or Hampshire on spec. I bought my current car from Leeds (400-mile round trip) but my budget was big enough to cover an AA pre-purchase inspection so I was pretty sure it wouldn’t be a wasted trip.
I’m not sure how the other cities do it but Glasgow differs from London in that there is no day rate. Non compliant cars are banned and is a £60 fine if you breach the rules. It is only for the very centre of town, roughly a couple of square miles, it’s almost exclusively apartments with young professionals or students, relatively low car ownership as most will work/study in the city centre. it’s not hitting residential communities going about their daily business.
The London one seems to be a cash generator impacting working families.
1 Like
Greater London has an area of 1,569 km2 (606 sq mi)and a population of 8,889,375.
In bath it only applies to delivery vehicles I think. Certainly didn’t get charged in my Peugeot diesel when we visited but we did in Birmingham.
Excellent, another solid reason to avoid pompey
1 Like
The Mini I bought was originally in Brighton so Mini offered to send it down to the local portsmouth branch for me to test drive and look at. It was the Snows group and they regularly shift cars around their network for buyers.
Spare a thought for Pompey man
1 Like