When’s the second vote on May’s plan A, is that tomorrow?
The Southern Irish will go to the EU and demand more money for them, they are no longer the worst basket case in the EU so the money they get is declining. This could totally fuck up their economy, that is why the EU will think about it. After Greece, Portugal, Italy and Spain in the dumps, the relatively poor eastern European countires and Germany / France in recession, all is not well.
I haven’t seen the original but I’d be prepared to bet a few quid that we didn’t put the GFA in place. We and the Irish did. Equally.
That’s clear. But if there’s going to be any chance of solving this then we are going to have to let go of our butt-hurt and swing the brain cells we have round to the problem. It’s very tempting to be ‘the Grumman guy’ (starts at 01:35 here)
Unfortunately we’re not staying in the EU, are we ?
VB
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We need another referendum / retraction of art 50 / Stronzetto
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So what. It’s the UK that has created the problem, so it’s for the UK to produce an acceptable solution. It’s not Ireland’s fault that our gammon infestation is out of control.
Not if we start compromising. Personally, I want the EU to play hardball, to make any option except staying so bad, that that’s what ends up happening.
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But the social discourse! won’t some one think of the children!
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This is the whole thing in a nutshell. Like it or not we created the problem. Not Eire or the EU.
No. Simply no. The problem is that an agreement was signed which failed to take account of an entirely legitimate possibility (so legitimate that it’s written down in the EU’s rules) which has now happened.
The Irish and the UK created that agreement. The Irish and not the UK are going to breach it (at least, breach it first). It is not just the UK’s problem.
This is the argument that ‘economics trumps politics’. It quite often works out that way. Unfortunately (and I really mean that) I wouldn’t bet my pension that Remain would win a re-run referendum even now.
VB
That’s about their position, to be fair, and rightly so.
They have compromised, and they have reached an agreement with our government that works. That our government can’t get it through Commons (for a variety of reasons) is our problem. That we don’t know what will actually get through Commons is also our problem. We need to find a solution to our problems, then they might be able to discuss matters with us again.
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Surely the absence of a hard border is on the statute books via the GFA and the various treaties with the RoI.
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That’s brexitard logic there. The UK is the party that has caused the situation, putting the GFA at risk.
Trying to paint it as Ireland’s or the EU’s responsibility is simply dishonest. A bit like caused a car crash by swerving in front of someone, and brake testing them, then trying to blame them for hitting you.
‘It’s all about the economy, stupid’ as someone might have once said.
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Do you mean the UK’s statutes or the RoI’s ?
In the event of No Deal it’s the RoI who will actually physically create the hard border. Are you suggesting that there is a UK statute which can control the actions of the RoI ? If there’s an RoI statute saying they have to keep the border open then whoopee - problem solved !
VB
Tesco has just announced 9000 potential redundancies. OK, so that is probably not solely down to Brexit, but it is a bad signal.
If the U.K. wants to avoid decades of hassle with the WTO then either it needs a border or to set all tariffs to zero. I’m afraid the ‘make the Irish build it’ is unlikely to work and may simply hinder further necessary negotiations.
Funnily enough, a few Gardai on the border are unlikely to set any other fun and games off. It’ll may be a different matter for the PSNI lads, particularly those in South Armagh.
We will also have to do so, in order to be compliant with WTO rules.
The options basically become (1) breach the GFA, or (2) become a rogue nation and ignore international law. There are surprisingly few direct consequences of (2), but that doesn’t make it a good idea.
Accusing someone of dishonesty is simply an insult.
You’ve used another flawed analogy. There are no watertight analogies. We’d be better off sticking to the facts of the situation in Ireland.
VB
I’ll bet we don’t do it first.
VB
“We’re more willing than the EU to break international law” - I didn’t see that on the red bus.
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