Brexit - Creating a Cuntocracy - Now with 4d chess option

[coco]

Fucking Labour. Useless cunts.

Labour support for Yvette Cooper’s Brexit amendment in doubt

[Craig]

@pmac

I have no issue with the EU’s approach to Brexit, in fact I’m impressed by it.

In an ideal world - one where, for example, the UK actually knew what the fuck it wants - then one could argue that solidifying the border arrangements in the WA prior to agreeing on the future relationship is problematic.

This sounds unfortunately close to agreeing with Dim David Davis, but seeing as he & May botched the whole thing from start to finish - red lines, no poltiical direction, zero engagment in detail - it’s a moot point: the red lines boxed us into a silly position to which they could only make one choice.

[Craig]

@Valvebloke

It guess it has some sort of treaty status. So both countries will have signed this treaty promising we won’t create a hard border and a contradictory treaty - an EU one (Rome ? Maastricht ? Lisbon ? dunno …) in the case of the Irish and a WTO one in the case of the UK - promising that in the event of Brexit or, hypothetically, Eirexit we will create a hard border. Careless. But it’s the sort of cockup that just happens sometimes.

It’s a recognised treaty, but in a contest between GFA and the EU Treaties the GFA blinks first. Put another way, the EU’s border is more significant than the N Irish border. .IE know this, but they have to play their hand as best they can.

So at some point, probably sooner rather than later, GFA will either have to be ignored or ammended / renegotiated … which will be a complete nightmare, not least because when it was prepared 20 years the DUP were nowhere near the heavyweight they are now.

My personal concern would be that, by the time one gets around to dealing with GFA 2.0 Scotland has seceeded from the UK and there’s an en entirely new dynamic with regard to the status NI. Arlene really ought to be more careful what she wishes for, IMHO.

[Valvebloke]

@Craig

It’s a recognised treaty, but in a contest between GFA and the EU Treaties the GFA blinks first.

Putting it that way makes it sound like a legal judgement. If so, which court made it and which police would enforce it ?

In fact I think it will not be an imposed decision but, instead, a choice by a sovereign national government. In the case of the EU vs the GFA it’s Ireland who will be conflicted. I imagine that the EU could threaten to eject the RoI if Brussels doesn’t get its way, since Brussels regards its laws as superior to national governments’ ones. In that case the RoI government would have to make the choice between the EU and the GFA. But the choice would be theirs, not Brussels’.

VB

[htm_1968]

Heidi Allen, yesterday:

“I cannot believe our prime minister is prepared to renege on an internationally agreed treaty, via a backbench-sponsored amendment. I won’t be voting for it and many of my colleagues won’t either.”

The GFA being the treaty in question. If the Government decides to renege on one treaty, why would it not renege on others, such as the obligations under various EU treaties?

In short, the decision walk on the GFA, or our obligations to the EU, should have serious implications for the long-term credibility of all future UK negotiations, which is inconvenient when we appear to have decided to renegotiate the vast bulk of our trading arrangements.

[catcando]

For those that wish to read it, here is the legal description from Parliament.

[murrayjohnson]

[MrKettle]

@Craig

when it was prepared 20 years the DUP were nowhere near the heavyweight they are now

When it was prepared the DUP rowed in at the last minute trying to scupper it.

[BobC]

Its an inter Govermental Agreement, it also had a commitment to look at various technological based infrastructure to help (never happened0 and also means that the UK relies on Irish border controls for immigrants. A proposal to allow UK immigration staff into places such as Dublin airport were also not pursued. It never concerned itself with freight and free trade as that was covered by EU Single Market regs.

I should add, it is not the GFA. The GFA does not mandate an open border at all. It talks about citizens rights and how they are identified, but doesn’t guarantee an open border.

[BobC]

No-deal 'redeployment' for defence staff

[Craig]

@MrKettle

When it was prepared the DUP rowed in at the last minute trying to scupper it.

I’ve just been reading up - is it actually possible that the DUP didn’t sign the multi party agreement of the GFA?

@BobC

Its an inter Govermental Agreement,

…and a Multi Party Agreement

[htm_1968]

I was struck at how weird Richard Harrington’s interview on the Today program this morning was. Effectively we got a junior business minister threatening to resign if Mrs May fails to guarantee that MPs will get a vote on an amendment to rule out a no-deal Brexit within two weeks.

(i) Here is a very junior minister calling out the PM secure in the knowledge that he won’t get the sack. WTF?

(ii) He actually expects a clear answer from Mrs May on a matter of substance. WTF?

[Craig]

@Valvebloke

Putting it that way makes it sound like a legal judgement. If so, which court made it and which police would enforce it ?

In fact I think it will not be an imposed decision but, instead, a choice by a sovereign national government. In the case of the EU vs the GFA it’s Ireland who will be conflicted. I imagine that the EU could threaten to eject the RoI if Brussels doesn’t get its way, since Brussels regards its laws as superior to national governments’ ones. In that case the RoI government would have to make the choice between the EU and the GFA. But the choice would be theirs, not Brussels’.

No., it was a political / real-world assumption. I’ve just looked for the last 15 mins but can’t find anything on the matter. Nothing,. Bizarre.

The idea, however, that the EU would chuck Ireland under a bus seems - at best - fanciful given the extent to which their solidarity has - quite rightly - been with their (remaming) member. There’s a dichotomory to resolve, no doubt, but imagining such an ultimatum from Brussels to Dublin, is a bit daft.

[htm_1968]

Useful synopsis of the current omnifuck clustershambles…

[Craig]

[Valvebloke]

And these are just the transitional arrangements. Thank heavens for this

VB

[murrayjohnson]

Except that the story is wrong.

[coco]

Is it?

It probably wasn’t yesterday; I guess l Corbyn changed his mind again?

[malbec]

Pie. In. The. Fucking. Sky.

PM will ask the EU to reopen Brexit deal

[Craig]

Total madness again from the Tories, except of course she knows exacly what she’s doing (ruinning down the clock: she knows the EU will tell her to do one)

Meanwhile, and this is - to put it midly - quite the surprise, here’s a (sex pest) Tory talking much sense about the backstop.

Stephen Crabb (SCrabbPembs)

Edit: some excellent outrage here

Ian Dunt (IanDunt)