Good things (that restore your faith in humanity)

How many rare and/or nasty raw materials do they need though?

Shouldnā€™t need any - perovskites are a naturally occurring group of Ca-Ti oxides, cation embedding mostly seems to involve other transitional metals close to Ti, so no immediately-obvious need to throw anything scary into the mix.

I hope youā€™re right (cos thatā€™s well beyond my chemistry) but youā€™re forgetting companiesā€™ willingness to fuck everything to increase profit

Given that you can buy standard panels with 22% efficiency which last for 25 years now
https://www.sunpowercorp.co.uk/products/maxeon-solar-panels
my flabber remains mostly unghasted for now.

Itā€™s got lead in it which is, technically, toxic. But the active parts are all in thin layers, so each cell only contains a tiny amount of anything. Cadmium sulphide PV cells (obviously) contain cadmium, but so little that when I last looked they could be sold as ā€˜cadmium freeā€™. Even in California. As long as the production plant is well-managed and the much thicker substrate material is harmless (often silicon, sometimes glass, even stainless steel) then you neednā€™t worry about toxicity.

Weā€™ve had multijunction cells for a long time. IIRC the Mars rovers use them. Hereā€™s one thatā€™s 30% efficient. The trick is to find structures which are cheap and reliable to make, where the production is scalable and where the lifetime is good. Perhaps thatā€™s where the perovskites show promise ?

VB

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The efficiency over lifetime curve is also worth looking at.

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Anything that doesnā€™t lean too hard on Strategic Materials (esp. rare earths) seems to be part of the motivation. The 30% PVs use all kinds of scary and/or rare stuffā€¦

Gallium, arsenic, indium and phosphorus on a silicon substrate. Arsine and phosphine will hurt you if you breathe them but weā€™ve been making semiconductors out of these materials for many decades and we know how to handle them perfectly well. Galliumā€™s not really rare (by-product of bauxite and zinc-ore refining). Thereā€™s as much phosphorus as we want and thereā€™s too much arsenic. Thereā€™s a bit of an issue with indium. Which is a shame because like tin it has a lovely cry when you bend it (I have heard it).

VB

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You are a font of useless, but interesting, information. Long may it continue :laughing:

Sounds as if it is throwing up

I remember the indium as sounding nicer than that. I went to a talk once given by Norman Booth who was trying to raise funds for an indium detector for solar neutrinos. The problem was youā€™d need tons and tons of indium. Heā€™d already acquired quite a lot and he brought a bloody great ingot of it along with him (maybe 60cm x 10cm x 10cm). I donā€™t remember anything about the talk Iā€™m afraid. But I do remember him bending this thing (indiumā€™s very soft) and it letting out a sort of plaintive creaky squeal. Weird.

VB

I have a drawer of old mobile phones that would probably crash the the commodities market were I to recycle them.

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Iā€™ll take that as a compliment :grin:.

VB

As you should :+1:

He is also a fount of useful knowledge.

This does not make him any less annoying.

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That just comes naturally :grin:.

VB

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:wink:

We were in the Liverpool store last week and it had piles of LPs. Being a tight git (and having already spent my allowance for the day) I didnā€™t buy any but they had hundreds of records

Vinyls :roll_eyes:
HMVkuntz

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you will notice I didnt refer to vinyl (singular or plural) in my commentā€¦ and it is the grauniadā€¦