Hoops Speaker Roundabout

[hoopsontoast]

It occured to me I’ve not really updated this as I doubt anyone really cares on my audio roundabout ramblings, in the past few months its mostly been downsizing as its been almost a year since I have no longer been working, and money is a fair bit tighter its strictly a sell to buy policy now. I’ve been selling a few vinyl LPs over the past month or so, either stuff that’s gained value since buying or just albums I never really listened to to pay for some bits.

The ‘main’ living room system is now really just background music and I’ve ended up moving the ATC SCM10s here as they work relatively well up against the rear walls and on the Target R stands they are very stable so no worry with children knocking them over. This is paired with the trusty Bryston B60R and the Yamaha CD-NT670D, although the latter may move into the ‘Library’ system as the Living room is 100% streaming these days and swap with my Yamaha WXC-50.

System by Robert Seymour, on Flickr

The ‘Library’ is our hobby room, the Wife does her sewing in there, and we have a lovely old Panasonic GT60 plasma with our older games consoles, as well as all the LP and CD storage now. The bits in here are the ATC CA2 Pre, Decware Zen DIY, Sony DVP-S9000ES and the long term Thorens TD-160Mk2 project. The Lyngdorf TDAi2200 was a perfect choice with the ATC SCM10s and the Castle subwoofer integration but far overkill for background music so moving it on to fund some upgrades for the car as well as the speaker drivers.

Current ‘stocklist’ of DIY drivers I still have for future projects
Scanspeak 26W/4534
Scanspeak 10F/8414 (used in the Frugelhorn Lite cabinets)
Scanspeak D2004/6020
Veravox 5S
Veravox 3 / Omnes BB3.AL (used in the Frugelhorn Lite cabinets)
Sica HFU6x8 CD/Horn
Seos 12 Horns
Supravox 165GMF (Single)
Goodmans Axiom 201 (Single)

So the plan is either a pair of the Supravox 165GMF or Goodmans Axiom 201s in a largish sealed/aperiodic enclosure, up against the rear walls for a bit of extra room gain in the bass. The 201s will need a bt of help with a tweeter above 8-10kHz so the Sica HFU6x8 are perfect for that, or a cheap CD to go with the Seos 12, something like the BMS 4524 would be ideal for example.

My previous Supravox 165-2000 drivers (Same as the GMF version but with AlNiCo magnet rather than ceramic) next to the Frugelhorn Lite which I still have:

Little and Large by Robert Seymour, on Flickr

And my previous Goodmans Axiom 201 drivers from 2014, used with my trusty DIY Decware Zen and some Fountek ribbons at the time.

System by Robert Seymour, on Flickr

[hoopsontoast]

The Supravox 165GMF and Goodmans Axiom 201 drivers. Both bought as singles (at bargain prices) so just need to source a second, the Supravox being the harder to find. Could buy new on the Supravox but prices have gone up since brexit.

[SteadySteve]

@hoopsontoast

It occured to me I’ve not really updated this as I doubt anyone really cares

Care more about the horn stuff🙂

When is a MEH coming?

[hoopsontoast]

I don’t really have the time/space/skill to go back down the horn/multi-way route really hence keeping it simple with a wide range driver and the Decware Zen.

The space these will be going into is a good size overall but need to fit in between a TV cabinet, fold out table and now an Ikea LP storage rack on the right (where the big 4x driver cabinet is towards the right wall). I’ve around 420mm width to play with for each speaker.

Old photo showing the previous Volt bass cabinets, Acoustic Energy AE2 & Lyngdorf all now sold.

System 2 by Robert Seymour, on Flickr

The Goodmans 201s should do well in a closed or Aperiodic enclosure ~100Litres that should fit into that space. The Supravox drivers will work in a lot smaller but may well need bass support from the Castle Subwoofer I have.

I do have the MiniDSP2x4HD if I wanted to do a 2-way but either with the Supravox or Goodmans driver I plan to keep it passive as any tweeter will only be cutting in around 8-10kHz really.

[hoopsontoast]

Well a bit of progress on the plan!

I’ve been fortunate to be able to try the Tannoy Monitor Gold 15s, I never thought I’d be able to get a pair on my budget but somewhat confirmed a few things for me. I do like the effortless presentation they do, and there is something special in the midbass/low midrange (even in the Lancaster cabs) with a 15" bass driver that I very much like. The areas I did not like as much, as found with the other Tannoys I’ve had is some lack of treble smoothness and just something not quite right in the midrange, compared to say the wide range drivers I’ve had from Supravox, NS1000Ms or the KEF Reference Three-Twos. I figured I could spend a good chunk trying new cabinets, crossover improvements etc or cut my losses and crack on with my original plans!

The good thing that came out of it is it pushed me to try a different layout in the room which has really helped overall, and gives me a bit more width/height to play with.

I’ve now a pair of Goodmans Axiom 201s, and hopefully a 2nd pair coming soon so I can find the two best matched to use, along with my SEOS12 and BMS 4524. Ultimately I’d prefer to use some Axiom 301s but finding a decent pair is proving hard to source!
The Supravox 165GMF would be used with my Sica 6x8HFU if required.

Depending on how it goes, I may go passive on the tweeter crossovers and active from both the 201s/165GMF to the bass part using my MiniDSP 2x4HD, and if I wanted active 3/4way, then a second 2x4HD seems the most cost effective route. Hence looking for a PSU option to keep on top of the cable management as I’d like to keep the electronics down to a minimum in this space:

The Bass Section is TBC, based on the sucess with the bass in the MG15s, I’ve been looking for some Goodmans Audiom 81 ‘Bass’ (15") and possibly sourced some. Trying to find other low Qts, higher efficiency 12-15" driver with a low FS (<30Hz) to use in a sealed cab is proving hard to find as most are PA units with a higher FS for power handling.

I certainly enjoyed the ‘critically damped’ design of the MG15s in the sealed Lancaster cabinets (Q of around 0.5), just seems to work best in my suspended floor rooms with some boundary boost, much like the NS1000Ms. On top of that, the quad of Volt 10" BM2500.4 I used in a sealed cab (Qts 0.25 with a touch of PEQ) gave quite possibly the best kick and punch I have heard.

[malbec]

No ‘and hopefully a 2nd pair coming soon’. They’re returning home; I was only the custodian

[hoopsontoast]

Yes, thanks Dave, did not want to say as they are not actually here yet My old pair as taken to Scalford 2014.

[malbec]

And when I heard them there, I loved them. Twas only a few weeks later that you put them up for sale. It was a no brainer for me to buy them.
I’m glad they’re going back to their natural home

[hoopsontoast]

Thanks to Dave @malbec I now have the starting of a collection! Sorry I could not stay longer, made it back home in time to tidy up and resume nursery duties!

A quick test and picked the two closest matched out of the four, not bad for 50-60yr old drivers!

I’m still after the Axiom 301s, they have the same basket/spider/cone as the 201 but with a larger magnet (lower Qe & Qts) so better control in the bass, and anecdotally, more transparent.

A quick listen tonight and I don’t feel I’m missing anything over the 15" Monitor Golds, actually sounds smoother in the midrange/treble to my ears, and that’s without crossover over to ribbons. The Tannoys went a bit deeper but to be expected given the 201s really need a mamoth enclosure to get any real deep bass out of them due to the high Qts.

[malbec]

You’re most welcome, Rob. I enjoyed them for 10 years and it was the right time for them to return home

[murrayjohnson]

I’m starting to gather a few pairs of 8" coaxials now. At some point it’d be interesting to hear what the pros & cons of 12" units are.

[hoopsontoast]

I guess a 12" coaxial will likely be a bit more efficient, and go a bit lower in the bass at the expense of probably a lower compression driver crossover point/treble performance.

One thing I love about the Goodmans 12" ‘wide-range’ drivers is they actually manage to do a really good effort at treble without it being to ‘splashy’ while actually doing some bass. Only the Supravox 165 drivers I have heard do better in the treble but at the expense of any real bass below 60Hz.

[Stevieg]

Am interested in this thread as becoming coax-curious. Have enough room for reasonable sized cabs. Not yet convinced on need for vintage drivers.

[hoopsontoast]

Some tweeter options to play with

-BMS 4524 Compression Driver with SEOS12 Waveguide (white ‘horn’)

-Sica 6x8HFU Compression Driver & Integrated Horn

-Fountek JP2.0 Ribbons

[freefallrob]

@Stevieg

as becoming coax-curious

[murrayjohnson]

SB 8" drivers just installed in Lowther Acousta cabs. Interesting. Apologies for the blingy screws! All I had here.

[omsoc]

Just wondering if this is the same driver that Tony @aja played with?

DIY Audio General - stuff you're making, tips, advice sought, etc

Recent readings on phase issues in crossovers lead me to full range drivers. Every full range driver I heard sounds pretty crap, no bottom end, cuppa mid, no top etc. Obviously I have not heard every full range driver but came across these. The curve looks not too bad as does the efficiency. So driven by the desire to hear something without a crossover I decided to knock something up using these drivers. I made the cabinet to large on purpose the idea being to reduce the volume in steps unti…

[murrayjohnson]

Yes they are although the loading presented by the Acousta’s lively back loaded horn will be somewhat different.

[omsoc]

You said upthread that you had a few co-axials, what have you got to play with?

Are you classing widebanders with whizzer cones as co-axial or do you also have proper ones with a tweeter?

Just noticed the thread highjack, there will be trouble!

[murrayjohnson]

At the moment just some similar looking & priced Visaton units. I want to get another set of Lowther Pm6a’s. I do actually have some Pm6A magnets so am considering getting one of the small community of driver hand builders to do me something nice cone wise to go on the fronts. I also have the weird Pioneer PAX-20E to try(may be issues fitting those) and the 8" German field coils which may or may not need a tweeter.

I’m conscious of whose thread this is, initially I was just responding to Steve’s comment about new drivers on old, largeish cabs I do wonder how many coax driver DIY threads the forum can tolerate too!