HMRC can have one for IR35. What an ill thought out fuck everyone bit of legislation


I went through it a few years ago cos of public sector reasons.

Use this place and get the contract assessment done, fortunately I was just starting out so the insurance was cheap.

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Thing is, if the client can’t be arsed to assess people/contracts individually it doesn’t matter what my contract says. We are all through a small set of agencies who have ir35 compliant contracts, but the end client is making blanket decisions
Oh, and passing on the employers ni costs in the form of rate cuts too

If they are paying employer NI they have already deemed you inside IR35.

Walk away.

That’s what I mean

If the client just goes ‘you’re all inside’ because they can’t or won’t look in any detail, my contract is irrelevant

They haven’t informed me yet but IBM has made that call (albeit they’ll review individuals by exception) but my client has thousands of subbies so can’t see them doing much different

IR35 in the private sector is going to be a nightmare, public sector learned very quickly they couldn’t ‘blanket’ everyone inside as contractors were walking away in droves. The met office lost 31 out 32 contractors when they declared everyone inside.

Hopefully they will learn the same but I’m hearing DXC (old HP) are going to declare everyone inside and up the day rates by 20%. Not sure many other companies will do that though.

Surprised DXC have any staff left to be honest (disclosure, I’m ex CSC)

Well next week will be interesting. Today may have been my last VAT return… or maybe not :rofl:

My brother is contracting for them in Hook on one of the ‘MOD’ projects.

I certainly wouldn’t want to be permy with them, not with hatchet mike in charge… monthly redundancy rounds, interspersed with extra redundancy

Yeah it’s pretty much just the ‘strap’ cleared people left there now as they know they can’t replace them with cheaper staff.

It was seeing how CSC treated staff in the US that made up my mind to vote remain. I can see our labour laws going that way with the EU reigning in the tories and big firms.

The legislation is aimed at ensuring even contractors and agencies pay the same amount of tax and national insurance as others - Seems reasonable.

Not in the slightest, contracting has none of the protection or benefits that permies have.

Contractors get more money to offset the lack of holiday, sick pay and being out of work/contract for periods of time.


I’m not against a significantly increased rate -It’s the pay less tax/net NI contributions bit that needs squaring up.


But it isnt that straight forward is it? Contractors pay VAT, corporation tax and dividend tax. On a higher rate that is a significant sum, plus they pay accountants and insurance permanent staff don’t. And as Chris says, if they want us to pay the same taxes, we should get the same benefits.

Then they need to change the rules on dividends and salaries then, IR35 is not the answer.

I’m a contractor, have a LTD company and often have 2 or more contracts on the go. I pay myself a salary of £35k and pay employee and employers NI. Whatever is left over I leave in the business for VAT and corporation tax and take some out as dividends.

I’m running a (very small) company so why should ‘my company’ effectively be PAYE on everything?

Yes. Like the NHS and law enforcement. Education. Defence. The transport system … oh, hang on …


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I’m ex HP. I left as soon as the CSC management team took over. I took voluntary redundancy when the decent payouts were still on offer and never regretted it.


All we need to do is abolish NI, increase tax rates accordingly and ensure that all income is taxed equally, whether it derives from employment or dividends. Would be so much easier and fairer.

I think that contractors should earn more than permies because they don’t have the employment rights, holidays etc, but that should be a commercial matter, not driven by tax rates.


And we pay plenty of tax - like any other COMPANY does. I’ll do some sums and see how close my corp tax etc bill is to my old PAYE contribution. And remember the company employing me will be paying less for me as a contractor so they will also pay more corporation tax as they will make more profit. After all, if it was cheaper to employ permanent staff they would, since they don’t the contractor must be cheaper to them