I think it’s more complex than that. Historically, calls to do this made at least an attempt to offer something to younger people and did so on the back of a core vote that was younger than it is now and had different priorities within it (children in education, less requirement for medical and social care etc). This time, there genuinely is an abyss but not the one that Frost is bloviating about because the real world requirements of the remaining people that vote for them neither match their ideological desires or allow for attracting much in the way of younger voters.
Honest Bob Jenrick’s election pamphlet “Your Community Magazine” oozed through the letterbox this morning with not one iota of Tory branding on it, or mention of the Conservatives in the copy.
Toxic. As. Fuck.
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Had something similar through the letterbox a while back; was a stark contrast with one I found in Purley which had all the ‘branding’…
Our MP announced he was stepping down a few weeks after the pamphlet appeared.
They’re fucked and they know it.
Its also all very pointless. We all know and so do they given the scale of rats jumping overboard that they are going to get annihilated at the GE. They’re done, time’s up, and there is no electioneering trick up their sleeve which is going to make the slightest bit of difference.
It’s a complete waste of time pretending that any posturing or policy is going change this - this rotton government is just that, rotting, and they’d be better served just skulking in opposition for Labour to fail to make much of a difference to a country that the Tories have had 14 years to fuck over and then swan back in as if nothing ever happened and get the gravy train going again.
I’m not disputing that. What I’m saying is that we might need to start pricing in that whatever swans back in at some point in the future might not actually be the Conservative party.
Reform-ed Conservatives?
Had nothing here.
Hopefully someone will turn up
Depends a lot on what you think the Conservative party is.
In my lifetime its always had different factions, the ‘wets’, the anti Common Market europhobes, the free market Thatcherites etc. Many of those remain but with different names. They all wrestle for control of the agenda either in public or behind the scenes - the campaign against Maybot by the Brexiteers being a particularly memorable plot.
But the real challenge to the identity of the Tory party is the change in politics away from principles, policy and debate and into petty grievance management and populism. The Tories have put far more energy into phoney culture wars and dividing people than actually running the country - because they know full well that its easier just to find a group to blame and fan the prejudices that agree with them, than it is to actually do stuff. At the end of the day they can just go on TV or social media and lie and double down on those lies and their supporters won’t even blink.
I have no doubt that the Conservative party that swans back in will continue in that vein.
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The shift to the right has been enabled by both the power of the ERG when there was a very small majority and Johnson expelling the 21 ‘moderate’ centre MPs who voted against the Government in 2019.
The loss of Dominic Grieve, David Gauk, Rory Stewart, etc removed a brake on the ambitions of the right.
This seems to be a continuation of the ideas-free reign we’ve endured for fourteen years. The single biggest brainfart of that time - Brexit - wasn’t even theirs after-all. Beyond that it’s been punish the poor and vulnerable for existing, let the rich do anything they want without consequence, suppress opposition, union jacks, and largely avoid any real governance beyond that.
My main worry is I’m hearing very little beyond wishlists and good intentions from any party…
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Because, in reality, the economy (country) is so fucked that is all they have to offer.
Not really the job of govt to sit back on their haunches, suck air through their teeth, and go “It’s fucking fucked m8 - fucked beyond repair m8 - sorry, best put a bullet in its head…” - kinda feel it’s their job to fix shit.
…And that clearly won’t be easy, and is going to require a LOT of change and a LOT innovation. Not hearing much along those lines from anyone, in no small part due to the factor Ed mentioned - the change-resistant piss-soaked pensioners who are about the only cunts who actually bother voting now…
Yep.
Kinda tricky from here on in.
Lol, his party is about as centrist as Corbyn and Momentum. The fact that the right wing extremists like Frost can’t see this is great news. They will drag the carcass of this Party into oblivion for at least two elections.
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Problem is the popular press are equally right wing and drip feeding the agenda to the readership, while screaming about left wing monsters in the Labour Party.
The collapse of the Red Wall shows how effective this can be,
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The Red Wall was lost because a significant group of its voters looked at the 2019 Labour party and went ‘fuck that.’ The speed with which it looks likely to be reclaimed by a saner Labour party rather supports the notion.
I’ve long been at odds with quite a few people here about the power of the press in the 2020s but nothing I’ve seen lately has changed my take. Unless single copies of the Mail and Telegraph make their way around entire streets after purchase, the circulation figures don’t equate to claimed impact and if we look online, far more right wing content lurks behind paywalls than centre/left content. I’m going to make myself even less popular by pointing out that a longstanding trope in the UK (and Europe for that matter) is to overstate the influence of the press as a coping mechanism that general populations aren’t as naturally left leaning as some people want them to be. It’s easier to blame a mechanism for this effect than it is to contend with human nature.
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I differ somewhat with this view having studied and worked in PR (which wouldn’t be a profession at all if the media didn’t hold considerable power to influence) . Certain facts point me in this direction. E.g Over 60% of content (Press / Web / TV and radio) is PR led. Moreover, people 'buy into editorial 60-70% more than advertisements statistically. There is a reason Rupert Murdock is called ‘The king maker’ - He can ruin or create: reputation / validity / ideology very effectively
Consciousness is contained within 3Lbs lump of grey mass existing entirely in the dark - This mass we call a brain is reliant on senses to assist it to learn / navigate and understand the ‘external world’ outside of a few innate impulses (Eat / Fuck / Run / Sleep) It has few means of doing so. Story telling is one of the ways humans learn through sight and sound (It would be weird if schools were about touch and smell).
Those that own the means to transmit the narrative are therefor very powerful, they do not get voted in or out every x4 years and can literally shape society - See Goebbels I use this extreme example as no one outside of shouting distance would have known what Hitlers ideology was if it wasn’t for the media (He made a shit ton from his books). Propaganda is a thing
Similarly very few people would know what Farage’s ideals were if it wasn’t for the media. In fact, if you didn’t know the cunt personally or have a trusted friend who did (Or be a number in an algorithm that keeps you in an echo chamber of exposure) he would have very minimal societal impact - It is only when the volume (Media) is turned up that such moronic self centered thinking can enter the collective ‘grey mass’.
The use of Cambridge Analytica to target misinformation was unfortunately effective in more recent times. That said the subtlety of the BBC for example is more sinister in many ways, skewed as it is by a few degrees to the right, it consistently walks people away from truth / reality.
TLDR - The story teller (Media) if trusted holds more power than the story or any individual ‘influencer’ politically or otherwise - It controls, guides and shapes the narrative - It is in many ways the teacher.
I wouldn’t write-off the press, it still wields fairly wide influence via its websites - especially among older people, but political influence is otherwise shared between mainstream (mostly televisual) media, plus social media’s characteristic echo-chambers into which can be fed all manner of unchecked lies and disinformation, and the fact that human instinct is very highly tribal.
The tribe is the social and peer group size we’re comfortable with - it’s Us, everyone else is Them. The more Them They are, the more we instinctively fear and mistrust Them. The tribe is naturally conservative and exclusive. Such is human nature. Tolerance, empathy and altruism have to be learned and don’t come to us automatically, no matter what we may wistfully wish…
The papers know,obviously that they don’t sell that many copies.
However they are fully aware that people see headlines in newsagents,Tescos,billboards etc,and as someone sees just the headline they pass that info on at the drs,bowls club,neighbours etc without actually looking into the story at all.
That becomes their truth and shapes their truth.
It’s very clever marketing.
Of course the internet has changed everything again.
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They don’t, but people talk to each other, they read facebook and the targeted crap they receive, they believed that Corbyn was the devil, they are disconnected with politics.
The overbearing attitude in 2019 was ‘Don’t talk to me about Brexit, I am bored shitless with Brexit’ then Johnson offered to make it all go away with a three word slogan and they all voted for it.
Even now when they do street interviews you can hear people say ‘I don’t know who Starmer is, I don’t know what his values or policies are, he hasn’t got a plan.’
Where do you think they are getting that from?