Hard relate to that general idea, although even then Tora’s found finding new people out here very hard indeed. The rural French seem to be a particularly insular crowd, and no amount of effort on our part seems to change that.
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Sadly, you are unforgivably English, added to which you’re in a rural area, in France, which in my more-limited experience means even more rural than Britain.
I find it really, really odd that so many men choose to be asocial, and I’m pretty sure it’s one of the root-causes of elevated levels of depression and suicide in men, so it’s a serious issue.
My own brother is a good example, he’s not had a single friend in his whole life, not as a kid, and very much not as an adult - his family, his work, and his hobbies (pursued in a solitary manner) occupy him as fully as he wishes, and he actually sees friendships as problematic - intrusive, time-consuming; he quickly binned facebook because of it. I am pretty sure he’s ‘on the spectrum’, mind.
I’m kind of the opposite - I tend to be an instigator, and hate not being able to socialise, it was the only thing about lockdown that sucked (well that, and all the death…). Sam’s similar, and is why we bought an outsized house, so friends could stay as and when they wished.
FWIW, I don’t see any virtue in this, it’s just a character trait like blue eyes or not being a ‘morning person’.
The pub is the core of all of this - and is why I’m really depressed that they are relentlessly disappearing, especially in areas like South Lincs where there’s no tourism, and therefore no ‘season-of-plenty’ for them. When we were house-hunting, one rule was a pub in walking distance, ideally several. Sadly, several of ours have gone for good, and those that remain are shite now, so we’re fortunate we met some good people early on.
I wonder if finding a bar nearby might help you and 'tor, Jon?
Social media is a part of the problem too I believe - despite the benefits that forums can have, forums tend to be mostly an older person ‘thing’ now, and older tends to equate to people who are already accustomed to having an external social life, using pubs, going to clubs, sociable hobbies &c.
The sorts of social media preferred by younger generations tend to shut them into algorithmic echo-chambers, and the ‘communication’ can be almost monosyllabic, limited by the tiresome interface of 'phones, cursed by intrusive advertising, bots and shills, and very often argumentative, pointlessly rude and combative. Not serotonin-friendly stuff at-all…
tl;dr - go out more
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Got some sense then
Shithole of a place, I have no idea why anyone still has an account
Pubs and clubs are a double edged sword for me and symptomatic of the UKs dependence on alcohol for socialising. Very few social activities here don’t involve some booze which can be off putting, especially if people with a tendency for nastiness once drunk are involved
Welcome to Caucasian culture - without alcohol, there would probably be no white people at-all because we’re too repressed to breed.
And three cheers for disinhibition - I find the arsehole to fungi ratio is ~ 1:1000 - shame 'bout dem 'holes, but it’s the price we pay…
It’s an interesting dilemma at a personal level and social scale.
Most of the people accessing FoL’s service (adult, mild to moderate mental health, ie the vast majority of people seeking/ referred for 'treatment’) fall into two main categories if you forgive the simplification -
- Those who find interacting with other people/ ‘society’ difficult, and/ or need help to cope with resultant anxieties
- Those who experience anxieties arising from isolation and feelings of loneliness
(Yes I know I’ve omitted trauma and impact of physical, sexual and psychological abuse but on the basis that they are usually triaged away to more specialist therapies).
Both of these seemingly contradicting conditions are perhaps inherent in the human condition. The striking and probably unsurprising thing is the growth in prevalence of category 2, which you can throw lots of economic, societal and technological change causes at (de-industrialisation, migration back away from cities, Covid, the rise of internet based communication/ work etc). Basically the way we spend our working day and what we do in the evenings has changed significantly and quickly, and is driving the frequency and severity of these types of feelings/ anxieties.
I’ve had this discussion with FoL in terms of what ‘treatment’ options are appropriate and available. Most current ones appear to focus on either normalising or coping with what is. I rather simplistically suggested for debate that if it’s the absence of interaction and variety of human relationships that is at the root of this then the antidote of sorts is perhaps supporting people to create and nurture these in the modern world?
FoL’s response to this was quite damning. She said it’s extremely difficult to contemplate that approach to a largely male cohort who at their core just don’t place value in friendship, or even basic human to human relationships. I asked so what do they value instead - to which she replied ‘Themselves. Their own thoughts, wishes, devices and decisions about how they spend their own time…’
And yet they
Is it not just a matter of pointing out that if they’re suffering with B then they might need to consider A a bit more carefully ? I can spend long periods of time on my own, or with Mrs VB, and she’s much the same. We have a few friends and we enjoy being with them too, but I’m guessing we have fewer than average and see them less often. The thing is, that doesn’t seem to cause us undue grief.
Couple of assumptions Graeme -
- That your own capacity for coping and resilience is shared by others
- That people think and act rationally when faced with personal problems
I don’t believe either is true.
I’d disagree about 1. I’m sure that these folks really are suffering and that they are struggling to understand how to relieve that pain. Life’s easy for me because, broadly speaking, I’m not suffering. But I’m not assuming that they’re like me. I’ve seen one of my brothers in tears and despair with a mental health problem, although not this particular one, so I’m very much not in the ‘they just need to pull themselves together’ camp. If he could have heaved himself out of that hole he certainly would have. Fortunately a counsellor was able to help him.
I shouldn’t have used the word ‘just’ though. There’s precious little ‘just’ about it.
So rather than
I’d de-personalise this by suggesting that capacity for coping and resilience varies from person to person
A real change for the better in my life has, slightly bizarrely, been a mobile phone game called Ingress. It’s location based, and has several features that make getting together beneficial, especially in certain places such as pubs/cafés in the centre of town. There are also local chats where players join to discuss strategies, but fairly quickly they become just chats.
I don’t really play the game much any more, and neither do most of the people in my team around me, but I have made several good friends locally, with whom I have coffee/lunch/beer. I wouldn’t know these people without the game.
The way that we make friends is generally to be thrown together accidentally, with a specific thing in common, several times. You start chatting about the specific thing, but gradually you talk about more stuff, and over time you become friends. Unfortunately our society doesn’t actually have many of these things to bond over: after work and kids/school they peter out quickly.
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I had this here talking about mince pies before various deviants & perverts took over.
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And you wouldn’t want it any other way
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Fuck !
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I was only thinking this morning that Windows 95 came on a dozen or so 1.44mb floppy disks. Window 11 is a 9GB download or 6400 floppy disks.
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Do it properly.
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I wasn’t lanched until November that year… 
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