Yet another thread for the purposes of awarding a cockpunch


#8161

I’m not sure that is actually true, but there is an argument to say that it should be. Unfortunately, I could easily see any UK Government finding ways to strip citizenship from people for many forms of dissent, once they get the taste for it.

But if someone abandons their home country and embraces an enemy state, maybe that should be a way of losing citizenship. I don’t think it is disproportionate.


#8162

I’m not playing any cards. I think the ‘lets Strip her of citizenship’ is the cop out. If that is truly the UK law it’s disgraceful.


#8163

No you accused me of racism you didn’t say that “strip her of citizenship” was a cop out.

Calling me a racist is a cunting cop out.


#8164

Not, I think, if the consequence is that she will become stateless. This is a long article but it has to be because if the person was born here and is not already a dual national then the issue becomes one of ‘reasonable belief’. Specifically whether the secretary of state has reasonable grounds for believing that the person is able, under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom, to become a national of such a country or territory.

The writer of the article goes on to say this wording neatly sidesteps the issue of whether that other country is willing to accept the person’s citizenship application once they’ve been stripped of British nationality. But I’m not clear why that is. Surely a judge would need to decide about the reasonableness of that belief ?

VB


#8165

I called the Home office policy racist, not you.


#8166

OK fair enough.


#8167

Her father is Ethiopian so she has Ethiopian citizenship by descent.

It is against international law to leave someone stateless but I don’t believe that would be the case here.


#8168

She may have Ethiopian domicile, but not citizenship


#8169

She has Ethiopian citizenship by descent, it is covered by the Ethiopian nationality law.

3. ACQUISITION BY DESCENT

1/ Any person shall be an Ethiopian national by descent where both or either of his parent is Ethiopian.


#8170

I didn’t know that. If she does then, whether any of us likes it or not, Sajid Javid can revoke her UK citizenship easily.

VB


#8171

As others have stated, there simply isn’t enough known about what she did while in Syria to pass judgement about any danger her return poses. What she thought she was leaving to and reality of life in the Caliphate may have been two different things. But at that point there was no turning back, attempting to come home would have meant certain death at the hands of ISIS.


#8172

Not if she was born in the UK to parents with right of domicile. She is a UK citizen by birth.


#8173

This ^
The Birth Certificate is mightier than The Passport


#8174

I’m pretty sure that isn’t the case. I have no recollection of half the Bogside being stripped of their citizenship and left at the border crossing with the Republic who also recognised them as citizens (as well as terrorist nutters).


#8175

She is a UK citizen. But UK citizenship, even if acquired by being born here (even yours* and mine, strictly speaking !) can be revoked by the Home Sec. It used to be the case that s/he could only do this if you were also a citizen of somewhere else - a dual national (Immigration and Asylum Act (2002)). But the critical change (read the long article above) has come in the last few years where your citizenship can now be revoked if the Home Sec believes you could get citizenship somewhere else.

*EDIT Hang on, yours is more complicated than mine.

VB


#8176

Yeah, that’s a pretty damned stupid position to take. Is there the possibility that she is still a radicalised member of ISIS, sure. But we’re a long way from having the necessary information to draw an emphatic conclusion on what she’s actually like now.

What is rather more clear cut from her time in Government is that Theresa May is a racist piece of shit, so will almost certainly look for any excuse possible to stick the boot in.


#8177

You mean in the colossally long time since she was interviewed and expressed no remorse?


#8178

Apologies. I’ve just found out where the al-Hawl refugee camp is. It’s not in the part of Syria completely under the control of Assad. It’s up in the bit which has recently been won back by the Syrian Democratic Forces who seem to consist of the (very armed) Kurdish YPG plus a load of (much less armed) other factions. I believe our relations with the Kurds aren’t nearly as bad as they are with Assad. Furthermore the camp isn’t all that far from the Iraqi border. So we might well be able to slip someone quite safely across under cover of darkness.

Perhaps if we really (really, really, really) wanted this woman back we could go and get her. I imagine that for now we don’t though.

VB


#8179

I’d also take any statements that she makes, while still living in a camp surrounded by other former Isis followers, with a large pinch of salt.


#8180

I did think that. However, given that the caliphate is according to ISIS paradise, I’m not sure any reason to leave is going to go down well. So, I dont think you can assume she is saying things to keep them on side.